Political correctness.

I never try to be politically correct.

I just try not to be a jackass.
 
angrysoba said:
However, it happened 14 years ago so that should be old news by now.
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That doesn't make for news copy to stir up reactionaries though.

A while back I amused myself by researching the English usage of "political correctness" in Google Books back to the 18th century. In the earliest sources, it carries the vague sense of "ideas, words and actions in line with political goals." That is essentially what it means today, as long as you are prepared to admit that political correctness, this kind of subordination of words and ideas, is not just something that comes from marginalized groups, but from groups in power as well. To give a few examples (real, verifiable ones, not made up for the sake of illustration): "special rights", "race-based privileges", "job creators"
 
BStrong said:
All you need to know about PC in todays world is this:

The movie Blazing Saddles could not be produced today with the same content as it was in 1974.
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Said with such certainty, and yet it still gets shown on TV and is available to buy.

What about the films of the Farelly brothers? Could those be made these days?

Are Tarantino's films 'politically correct' in this context?
 
smartcooky said:
You are missing the distinction aren't you? Calling a person the "n" word is not the same as discussing the "n" word.

Wikipedia has an entry for the "n" word, in which it explains the origin of the word. Does that make it a racist website?

Poking fun at Political Correctness is not the same as acting politically incorrectly, per se,

Its all about context.
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I am amused that the Americanish language has the Never SayThe Name circumlocution "the N-word". Like The Fair Folk or The Scottish Play.
 
smartcooky said:
Yep

Actually the sanctions should apply to anyone who uses ethnic or racial slurs or vilification, regardless of their colour or race

However, don't make the mistake of thinking that Political Correctness is all about racism. Race is only a very small part of the issue. There are other things it encompasses, such as education standards, language, revisionist history, culture, social engineering and others. It is a growing cancer on our society, that is slowly eating away at its fabric, although I'm not suggesting its a conspiracy of any kind.

It was once described to me as an an uncoordinated and misguided set of ideas that spread through the western world as the free-love, free-thinking pot-smoking crowd of the late 1960's began arriving in their mid-life crisis years without a cause...so they went looking for one.

Political Correctness gives us such things as;

► diversion of youth offenders instead of rehabilitation or punishment
► education standards that provide me with candidates for employment who appear to have passed their NCEA Level 3 (broadly equivalent to British GCE A-Levels) but who cannot spell to save themselves or do simple arithmetic without a calculator.
► allowing teachers and school councillors to arrange the supply of contraceptive pills to under aged girls without the knowledge or consent of their parents.
► the feminist promoted ideology that all men are rapists.
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Oh don't be such a big girl's blouse! You use more cliches in your posts than I've had hot dinners. Political correctness as a cancer eating the fabric of our society? Honestly, there has been no end of people lining up to declare the melodramatic tosh that the country is going to the dogs in a handbasket!

It seems that back in 1928, G.K Chesterton moaned:
These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own.
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Peter Hitchens traces the rot further back to the Edwardian era when people started losing their standards, while Theodore Dalrymple seems to think it began with Rouseau.

I think if Western society could see off the Nazis and survive the Cold War then it will take more than a few lentil-eating, sandal-wearing beardie-weirdies to trash society. Show a bit of backbone, man!
 
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Noztradamus said:
I am amused that the Americanish language has the Never SayThe Name circumlocution "the N-word". Like The Fair Folk or The Scottish Play.
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I don't know what the forum's position is on actually posting the "N" word. I've had one warning for language, so I don't really want another.
 
smartcooky said:
3. Mendocino County, CA - May 2009:
A history teacher, who was wage bargaining on behalf of local schoolteachers, wrote a letter saying that the "tenor of the negotiation tactics of the district office has become increasingly negative and niggardly." Ten individuals in Mendocino County school stated that the teacher's comments were "racially charged and show a complete lack of respect and integrity toward the District Superintendent," who happens to be black. The history teacher sued the ten individuals for defamation, and the worst aspect of this is that the judge ignored over 200 years of English language teaching, and found for the school district.
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The judge "ignored over 200 years of English teaching" because his ruling sidestepped the issue and decided on other grounds.
 
uk_dave said:
Are Tarantino's films 'politically correct' in this context?
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If you're talking about Django Unchained and comparing it to Blazing Saddles or something then that's obviously different because er... well... some reason.

Noztradamus said:
I am amused that the Americanish language has the Never SayThe Name circumlocution "the N-word". Like The Fair Folk or The Scottish Play.
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You can't write ****** on this forum. It's damn political correctness gone mad!

smartcooky said:
I don't know what the forum's position is on actually posting the "N" word. I've had one warning for language, so I don't really want another.
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The forum's position is that you cannot write ******. You also cannot write ****, piss, ****, ****, **********, ************, and tits. This political correctness thing has apparently been around a long time.
 
angrysoba said:
You also cannot write ****, piss, ****, ****, **********, ************, and tits. This political correctness thing has apparently been around a long time.
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I know, and "tits" doesn't even belong on the list!!!!

...and do you think that George Carlin (were he still with us) could still get away with his act these days.

What about Richard Pryor and his persistent use of the N word. If he were still with us, would he be able to get away with releasing this album again...

http://tinyurl.com/947j6

Note: had to make a tinyurl because the forum censored the URL I tried to use :eye-poppi
 
smartcooky said:
I know, and "tits" doesn't even belong on the list!!!!

...and do you think that George Carlin (were he still with us) could still get away with his act these days.
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Are you serious? These days people would wonder what he was complaining about. Of course he could do his act. These days his act is completely tame. He could say those words on TV!! He was still doing stand-up until he died a couple of years ago!

What about Sarah Silverman or Frankie Boyle? They're often considered "offensive" and get on TV all the time.


smartcooky said:
What about Richard Pryor and his persistent use of the N word. If he were still with us, would he be able to get away with releasing this album again...

http://tinyurl.com/947j6

Note: had to make a tinyurl because the forum censored the URL I tried to use :eye-poppi
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Well, how about Bill Maher who uses the N-word as well as saying things like "white trash". Oh, and the Tarantino movies. Remember when it was said that Blazing Saddles could never be made today?
 
Political correctness is the belief that "sticks and stones" are less harmful than names.

Which is why there is often a need to apologize every time you open your mouth.
 
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smartcooky said:
A. You still missed the point, which is, as Caustic Logic pointed out, this should never have happened in the first place!!
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I feel like Angrysoba got it closer, but you're right that I still get the underlying problems and meant that to come through a bit. I suspect maybe the stress of the ordeal is why the guy didn't take his job back, etc. But then I wonder about unknown circumstances the other way-like, was he really a racist, but his clever veiling of a slur let him get away with it, etc. I don't know the case front to back or anything.

On balance, I say it's an issue, but one that often winds up dealt with reasonably. But it can get weird.

On the N word, did Samuel L, Jackson's interview come up here yet? I heard about but have no links handy. White interviewer refused to specify under any circumstances which N-word he meant, even to discuss it. Sounds hilarious. Don't know if it's from the 90s too.
 
smartcooky said:
I don't know what the forum's position is on actually posting the "N" word. I've had one warning for language, so I don't really want another.
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If everybody knows what it is, it's not necessary. If saying "the N word" sounds stupid, I dunno. If Samuel L. Jackson invites you to say it, you should. Not as a hateful slur hurled against him though, just as a word. If you hate him, why are you interviewing him? Jeez.
 
smartcooky said:
► allowing teachers and school councillors to arrange the supply of contraceptive pills to under aged girls without the knowledge or consent of their parents.
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Not a good look coming from one who criticises others' poor English
 
kerikiwi said:
Not a good look coming from one who criticises others' poor English
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To be fair, he could be using the correct word if what he means is one of those new-fangled PC ideas of having school pupils run their own council as though the school were a town. Presumably the pupils elected ran on a platform of supplying contraceptives to other pupils without telling Mummy and Daddy.
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
4. Children at school no longer fail. We cannot say that a child has failed, we must protect them from this psychological trauma by calling it "deferred success".
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Again, I am dubious about how widespread this actually is.
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I can say quite widespread here. While I worked in the Tertiary sector, doing vocational training, I can quite honestly say that the only way to fail your course was to simply not complete the work. Assessments were marked as only "Achieved" and "Not Yet Achieved" and there were unlimited attempts to complete a paper. There was no difference between a person who completed the paper on the first attempt with an exceptional quality of work, and a person who met the bare minimums required on their 4th attempt.

When I think Political Correctness, I think of a system that is trying to make everyone equal. Now in some things this is good, everyone should have equal opportunities and and respect and be all treated equally. However it goes too far when it refuses to allow for excellence and so drags those with natural ability and skills down to the average level, and refuses to acknowledge that others simply can't achieve certain things no matter how hard they try. PC has created a generation who think that they can go on Idol shows and actually sing instead of being told that they really, really can't and need to get off the stage and get a realistic dream. No everyone can be a football superstar, or a rock star, or a writer, or a astronaut, but in this PC world we are creating a society where everyone is told that they can be because telling people that they don't have the ability to do something so frowned on to the point where it just isn't allowed. "Sure Billy, you may be 24, still unable to add 2 and 2 and think that thunder is caused by trolls jumping in clouds, but you can be an rocket scientist, no worries, here's a spanner."

We have created a generation of young adults who have never been allowed to fail, who have been told that they can do anything, and that they are special, who are now struggling with the fact that reality is cruel and harsh and failure is not only an option, it's the most likely path.

Yes there are some good parts to PC, but there is a dark side when it tries to equalise us all when nature didn't actually build us all equally. It fails when it prevents us from locating a person's true abilities and enhancing them to the point where they can be great at doing what they are good at because it's not seen as glamerous. It is dangerous when it lambasts people that want to follow careers or paths that it sees as past oppression rather then helping them to do what they want to do the best that they can. And it is extremely harmful when it demands that qualifications be lowered to make sure that everyone has a chance of making it in certain highly skilled professions because some ratio isn't filled up the way it should be according to the PC.
 
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PhantomWolf said:
I can say quite widespread here. While I worked in the Tertiary sector, doing vocational training, I can quite honestly say that the only way to fail your course was to simply not complete the work. Assessments were marked as only "Achieved" and "Not Yet Achieved" and there were unlimited attempts to complete a paper. There was no difference between a person who completed the paper on the first attempt with an exceptional quality of work, and a person who met the bare minimums required on their 4th attempt.

When I think Political Correctness, I think of a system that is trying to make everyone equal. Now in some things this is good, everyone should have equal opportunities and and respect and be all treated equally. However it goes too far when it refuses to allow for excellence and so drags those with natural ability and skills down to the average level, and refuses to acknowledge that others simply can't achieve certain things no matter how hard they try. PC has created a generation who think that they can go on Idol shows and actually sing instead of being told that they really, really can't and need to get off the stage and get a realistic dream. No everyone can be a football superstar, or a rock star, or a writer, or a astronaut, but in this PC world we are creating a society where everyone is told that they can be because telling people that they don't have the ability to do something so frowned on to the point where it just isn't allowed. "Sure Billy, you may be 24, still unable to add 2 and 2 and think that thunder is caused by trolls jumping in clouds, but you can be an rocket scientist, no worries, here's a spanner."

We have created a generation of young adults who have never been allowed to fail, who have been told that they can do anything, and that they are special, who are now struggling with the fact that reality is cruel and harsh and failure is not only an option, it's the most likely path.

Yes there are some good parts to PC, but there is a dark side when it tries to equalise us all when nature didn't actually build us all equally. It fails when it prevents us from locating a person's true abilities and enhancing them to the point where they can be great at doing what they are good at because it's not seen as glamerous. It is dangerous when it lambasts people that want to follow careers or paths that it sees as past oppression rather then helping them to do what they want to do the best that they can. And it is extremely harmful when it demands that qualifications be lowered to make sure that everyone has a chance of making it in certain highly skilled professions because some ratio isn't filled up the way it should be according to the PC.
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I agree when you say that there are people who confuse "equality of opportunity" which I consider a Good Thing, with "equality of outcome" which I consider a Bad Thing. You're right that it diminishes the efforts of people who do work hard to get the same rewards as those who did nothing whatsoever.

I think that making artificial quotas in areas such as, say, physics for women is not a good idea if physics simply doesn't attract enough women to fill the quotas. Same would go for firefighting, soldiering and policing where there should be no additional barriers to women of the same standard as men getting those jobs but there shouldn't be lower standards for them with men being turned away because they are the wrong gender. If that happens, and it might do and it might not, then it is wrong.

Having said that, some of the examples you give might not actually be part of a PC worldview. Shows such as Pop Idol deliberately choose people who can't sing because their public humiliation is entertainment.

By the way, is the term "deferred success" really used in all seriousness?
 
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