Police look into psychic "tips" about Caylee Anthony

[Ian]

Foxnews.com has updated the story of a woo-woo artist who claims to have "Sensed Caylee in Wooded Lot."

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,477456,00.html

This con-artist should be embarrassed to make this claim so long after the unfortunate discovery was made. It's very easy to be a "psychic" after the facts come out.

 

[Ian]

Foxnews.com has updated the story of a woo-woo artist who claims to have "Sensed Caylee in Wooded Lot."

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,477456,00.html

This con-artist should be embarrassed to make this claim so long after the unfortunate discovery was made. It's very easy to be a "psychic" after the facts come out.

 

[Rodney]

Foxnews.com has updated the story of a woo-woo artist who claims to have "Sensed Caylee in Wooded Lot."

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,477456,00.html

This con-artist should be embarrassed to make this claim so long after the unfortunate discovery was made. It's very easy to be a "psychic" after the facts come out.

"'All right, I've got to pull over,' St. John is heard saying on the video when the SUV reaches the wooded lot.

"'Something's not right here. Something's not right here,' St. John tells her daughter in the video."

So, did Gale St. John make similar comments about other locations, or only this one?

 

[William Parcher]

So, did Gale St. John make similar comments about other locations, or only this one?

You are the claimant. Try to research it yourself.

"'All right, I've got to pull over,' St. John is heard saying on the video when the SUV reaches the wooded lot.

"'Something's not right here. Something's not right here,' St. John tells her daughter in the video."

When she says that and pulls over she is within the wooded lot, she has already driven past the remains location. Because Suburban Dr. is a dead end street, she has to turn around and drive out again going past the remains site.

Here is the video. It shows a map of where she stops, which is not particularly close to the remains and certainly not pinpoint.

 

[Rodney]

Pinpoint is the wrong word. I watched the video. She drives past the spot where the remains were recovered, and stops some distance away. They let the dog out and walk it around (in the wrong area), then get back in the vehicle and leave.

So how did she happen to get anywhere near where the remains were found?

She made videos of various locations at various times. Now she highlights the one made in the vicinity of the body and claims she found Caylee.

Do you have evidence that other videos were made?

 

[William Parcher]

So how did she happen to get anywhere near where the remains were found?

The video shows her starting out at the Anthony house, then drives a couple blocks to the forested area. Again, she drives past the spot, parks, and never gets out.

Do you have evidence that other videos were made?

Any videos on the web are ones that she put there. I linked to her video which she posted on YouTube 5 days after Caylee was found. Here are all the videos she has posted on YouTube. You can see the one called "Caylee Anthony Reported Found!" shows footage from some of her searches for Caylee.

Now check out the 20 minute video on her website. It's an extended version (contains profanities) of the one where she gets near the actual site. After she leaves those woods, she drives a few miles to another woody area and gets out for a look see.

 

[Questioninggeller]

So how did she happen to get anywhere near where the remains were found?

Because Caylee's body was found right near the home, which was Gale St. John's starting point on her driving trips and there was one road out of the cul-de-sac. (See map below.) Also St John was hired by the family.

So, did Gale St. John make similar comments about other locations, or only this one?

Yes, according to several press reports made earlier. She made a whole bunch of other guesses. Did you read through the earlier parts of this post?

From my post 37:

Psychic Team Joins Search For Caylee Anthony
Tuesday, August 12, 2008 – updated: 10:37 am EDT August 12, 2008
wftv.com

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- It's been 28 days since now 3-year-old Caylee Anthony was reported missing and a psychic has joined the efforts to find her.
...
Gale St. John said she had a vision of a place in Orlando near a lake, surrounded by trees and wildflowers. That is where she believes Caylee Anthony can be found, but not alive.
...

Psychic Gale St. John back in Orlando searching for Caylee
WOFL, FOX 35
Created: Wednesday, 19 Nov 2008, 7:59 AM EST

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35, Orlando) -- Another big name you may recognize is back in town searching for Caylee Anthony, Psychic detective Gale St. John from the show The Body Hunters. This is St. John's third trip to Orlando looking for the missing three year old. Their first stop of the day, Greenwood Urban Wetland outside of downtown Orlando.

Dozens of tips led St. John to this location. ... She says she has a vision of the specific spot she's looking for.
...

The Anthony home is in a cul-de-sac and the only way to get on a main road out of the housing area is by driving past the wooded area where the body was found.

Gale St. John did a lot of driving on several trips and if she started driving at the Anthony home, with video in tow, then she would certainly pass by the area where the body was found.

You can see this from the map I attached below, which was taken from orlandosentinel.com.

But let's say for a minute, Gale St. John did know where the body was in August. Why didn't she get out of the car? Why didn't she ever go back to the spot and dig? Why not send the police to the spot?

You expect us to believe she had "strong feelings" about the body being at a specific location (ignoring that she was reported to have other "visions" of unrelated locations) for four months and didn't do anything?

And if she knew about the spot in August why go back to Orlando months later and travel around having "visions" in other locations? Why not do something before the body was found? Why not write a letter detailing where the body was and submit it to the JREF for the million dollars?

HOST: NANCY GRACE
SHOW: NANCY GRACE for January 6, 2009
Aired January 6, 2009 - 20:00:00 ET
CNN.com
...
GRACE: OK, with me tonight exclusively, Gale St. John, renowned psychic and host of "The Body Hunter."

Again, explain to me exactly what you experienced when you got to the location where Caylee`s remains were later found.

ST. JOHN: Well, when we turned onto Hope Spring onto Suburban I immediately began to feel that sinking, can`t breathe feeling, as if I got punched in the stomach, nauseated and just panicky.

You feel like you can`t breathe. And obviously behind me at the same time was Travis going through some of the same sensations, which he`s one of our apprentices. And the dogs were reacting.

GRACE: And you actually got -- somebody in the car actually got nauseous when you got to the location?

ST. JOHN: Yes. Yes. And that`s the feeling that goes with it when you, when you come upon a body, that`s frequent.

GRACE: Did you alert police?

ST. JOHN: Did I alert police at that moment, no, I did not alert.

GRACE: No, at some juncture, did you tell police that you had come to this location and felt very strongly about it?

ST. JOHN: No, we had not been taken seriously when we were there.

GRACE: OK.

To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI, former D.C. cop. Mike, why is it that police -- I know as a former prosecutor, I did not take psychic seriously. Only for one reason, not necessarily did I discounted them, but because I knew I would likely not get the evidence into trial, and if I did get it in before the jury, then it would be mocked by the other side. And it could then taint my legitimate evidence. And it could hurt the case.

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Yes.

GRACE: More than it helped the case. Whether I personally believed in it or not, I had to do what`s best for the case. But why do police typically discount psychics? I mean this was months before the body was found.

BROOKS: Because, Nancy, most -- most investigators, most trained investigators who have -- who had information -- usually turns out to be nothing.

I`m sorry, I don`t believe in the whole psychic, using psychics in a case. I`ve heard, you know, they give information. Most of the information doesn`t pan out and my other question is, how many other of these "feelings" did she have around this area during the time that she was out there searching?

I mean I see the dog. It doesn`t look like the dog was on the track. It looks like the dog is looking back at the person taking the video. And you hear on the video, turn on the air-conditioning because the dog`s getting sick. So you know sick dog, hitting on something? I`m not buying it, sorry.

GRACE: OK. So you don`t buy it.

BROOKS: No.

GRACE: But they felt strongly enough to get out of car.

BROOKS: Then they should have called the police.

GRACE: And take the dogs out and actually start searching.

BROOKS: Right.
...

Source

 

[Questioninggeller]

George Anthony Says Caylee's Kidnappers "Are Being Watched"
Tuesday, August 12, 2008 – updated: 7:19 am EDT August 13, 2008
wftv.com

...
PSYCHIC TEAM SEARCHING FOR CAYLEE

It's been 28 days since now 3-year-old Caylee Anthony was reported missing and a psychic has joined the efforts to find her (See Images | Raw Interview).

Gale St. John said she had a vision of a place in Orlando near a lake, surrounded by trees and wildflowers. That is where she believes Caylee Anthony can be found, but not alive.

"It's just a feeling that we have. We don't like to talk about it because it hurts us," Gale St. John said.

St. John was the star of a planned cable TV show, The Body Hunter, and now she has a team searching an area near Lake Conway with cadaver dogs. Gale said that she was not just doing it for TV, she was also asking for donations on her website.

Since the low budget show has not debuted yet, St. John said donations were the only way she could afford to travel.

"Geez, I wish I wasn't losing my house right now. So if I'm making a profit somehow, it's not doing me a lot of good," she said.

St. John has not promised anything, but said she had something to offer.

"Can we be wrong? Yes, but we're doing more than sitting around talking about someone missing," said St. John.

Source

Video from wftv.com:

Gale St. John said she had a vision of a place in Orlando near a lake. (08/12/08)

"PSYCHIC SEARCHING: Raw Interview With Gale St. John"

http://www.wftv.com/video/17167379/index.html

No mention of finding the body or specific locations in the video. "Near a lake in Orlando" could be anywhere in Orlando. Lake Conway was wrong. I fail to see how that was any help or specific to the Anthony family, but clearly Gale St. John got free travel and promotion.

If she has paranormal abilities, she could drive from Orlando to Fort Lauderdale and collect James Randi's million. Why doesn't she? One million dollars would keep her from losing her home.


Above St John said she was working on donations. This article says she was hired by the family:

Caylee Anthoony Missing: Family Hires Psychic Detective Gale St. John
postchronicle.com
Aug 11, 2008
by Jack Ryan

New details have emerged in the case of missing Caylee Anthony - The family has now hired a 'psychic detective', Gale St. John, in hopes of finding Caylee.

It's also been revealed that Casey Anthony, the mother of missing Caylee and a person of interest in her disappearance, stole gas cans from her father's garage shortly before her daughter went missing.
...

Source

 

[Questioninggeller]

Here's another "psychic" vision from Cindy Smith. Note it's from the same news outlet that is quoting Gale St. John uncritically:

Psychics, spiritualists assist in search for Caylee Anthony

Last Edited: Monday, 11 Aug 2008, 11:47 PM EDT
Created: Monday, 11 Aug 2008, 11:03 PM EDT

www.myfoxorlando.com/FOX 35

ORLANDO, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35) -- Cindy Smith calls herself a spiritualist and not a psychic. Smith has spoken with the Anthony family and on Monday, she spoke with investigators to say that she knows where missing Orlando toddler Caylee is.

With few clues in the search for the missing three year old, some have suggested that the Anthonys turn to the world of the paranormal for leads.

Cindy Anthony claims that her family has not consulted with a psychic. She denied such a meeting when questioned by FOX 35. "No. No, we haven't," she said with a look of amusement. "It's not funny, but it is. You know there are probably people out there who have a power or a gift. We're told that they're following up on those as well."

Two weeks ago, FOX 35 crews observed Cindy Smith leaving the Anthony home. Smith shared details of her visit. "I told her (Cindy Anthony) 'I was gonna bring her home,' that 'she was not going to be happy, but I was going to bring her home' "
...
"I went into Caylee's bedroom, but I knew before I went into her bedroom that it wasnt good. And if I go in and touch something its revealed to me."

Smith isn't the only one with a sixth sense who are assisting in the search for Caylee. There a number of websites where people are using mind power to track down Caylee. At BriansDreams.com, for example, Brian Ladd and a team of others try to crack the case using dreams as a compass.
...
Cindy Smith did speak to Sgt. John Allen with the Orange Co. Sheriff's Office on Monday, offering what information she could to help out with the search. "I told him he is looking in the wrong place that he needs to concentrate on a diff place I told him exactly where he needs to go.

Smith told FOX 35 that she believes that Caylee is close, definitely in Central Florida. In her vision, she says she clearly sees shoes covered with "pink flowers." She wouldn't offer too many specifics beyond that.

Source

So it appears Cindy Smith, Gale St John, Kimmie Rose Zapf, and the other psychic tips were of no help.

 

[Old man]

"'All right, I've got to pull over,' St. John is heard saying on the video when the SUV reaches the wooded lot.

"'Something's not right here. Something's not right here,' St. John tells her daughter in the video."

Originally Posted by William Parcher
Because Suburban Dr. is a dead end street, she has to turn around and drive out again going past the remains site.

"All right, I've got to pull over" (As in, 'I've got to pull over so we can turn around'.)

"Something's not right here. Something's not right here," (We can't get out this way.)

 

[Seanrmr]

Thanks to the Professor(he posted on MC) we have a link to yet another psychic on this band wagon

http://kreuzer33.wordpress.com/2009...confirms-she-was-on-phone-with-dominic-casey/

She claims to be the one who helped the PI for the anthony family ruin the crime scene of where the body was later found. Amazingly they didn't find it that month earlier.

How many can claim this as there hit.

 

[Ernie M]

Here's a CNN Video along the lines of what Seanrmr posted,
with Nancy Grace interviewing "Psychic" Ginette Matacia Lucas

"Psychic dreams of tot location"
A psychic that's aided with the Anthony family private investigators claims she had a dream about where Caylee was found.

"Psychic" Ginette Matacia Lucas said a fellow dowser asked her to do some location work for the Anthony case.

Gee Ginette, if you were psychic, how come you couldn't find Caylee's remains earlier?

 

[Clairvoyant_Kyle]

Gee Ginette, if you were psychic, how come you couldn't find Caylee's remains earlier?

Or even at all? It was no psychic that found the remains. Just as usual lots of psychics mobbed to highly popular case, made tons of claims/predictions, waited for the body to be found, and then tried to make a connection between what they said and where the body was found. I bet if a test was done where 10 claimed “psychics” and 10 claimed “non-psychic” all made claims/predictions about a case, but in the end were giving the opportunity to adjust what they meant when realities of the case were told there would be little difference in ability. Well besides that beast of a woman Nancy Grace would praise the claimed “psychic” and focus her rambling anger at the claimed “non-psychics.” She is just as pathetic as the psychics she has on her show.

-Kyle

 

[Roma]

I've heard and seen the video tapes on Nancy Grace where those psychics are saying or purported to have been saying that "this is the place" and it was.
Now I'd like to see the hundred other tapes where those same psychics got all excited and said "this is the place" and it wasn't.

 

[jayman]

Waste of Time?

Should the police really be taking these "psychic leads" seiously? Is it out of desperation that they follow the leads from supposed psychics or is it part of police procedure to follow ALL leads? It seems to me to be a complete waste of time for the police and investigators in cases like these.

 

[LONGTABBER PE]

Should the police really be taking these "psychic leads" seiously? Is it out of desperation that they follow the leads from supposed psychics or is it part of police procedure to follow ALL leads? It seems to me to be a complete waste of time for the police and investigators in cases like these.

Let me give you the honest answer. ( I never used one in my career as an investigator but know some depts who did at times)

You would be hard pressed to find a detective or department who even likes the idea, much less one that actually wants to use one. ( most times you find psychics hired by the families out of despair and not departments proper and sometimes they come to the dept with a "vision" so technically they volunteer themselves)

But the bottom line is ( especially in a high profile case or where theres even a glim hope of saving a human life)- after all other methods have failed or grown cold, we would try anything because theres always the chance of pure blind random chance they "might" hit the jackpot. ( be it by hook, crook, luck, psychic ability or a drug induced delusion)

If that 1 lone random event saves a life or stops a killer even once, it was worth it. ( and no, I'm not an advocate or believer in them but when the stakes are high and you have exhausted every avenue you have and the clock is ticking- theres nothing to lose and everything to gain)

 

[jayman]

Let me give you the honest answer. ( I never used one in my career as an investigator but know some depts who did at times)

You would be hard pressed to find a detective or department who even likes the idea, much less one that actually wants to use one. ( most times you find psychics hired by the families out of despair and not departments proper and sometimes they come to the dept with a "vision" so technically they volunteer themselves)

But the bottom line is ( especially in a high profile case or where theres even a glim hope of saving a human life)- after all other methods have failed or grown cold, we would try anything because theres always the chance of pure blind random chance they "might" hit the jackpot. ( be it by hook, crook, luck, psychic ability or a drug induced delusion)

If that 1 lone random event saves a life or stops a killer even once, it was worth it. ( and no, I'm not an advocate or believer in them but when the stakes are high and you have exhausted every avenue you have and the clock is ticking- theres nothing to lose and everything to gain)

Thank you for your response. I wanted to be clear on why police take "psychic leads" seriously to begin with. I'm sure If my sister or one of my parents went missing I would try everything I could to find them.

 

[Rodney]

You would be hard pressed to find a detective or department who even likes the idea, much less one that actually wants to use one. ( most times you find psychics hired by the families out of despair and not departments proper and sometimes they come to the dept with a "vision" so technically they volunteer themselves)

According to this survey -- http://stopcon.org/Police Psychics.htm -- 36% of police officers surveyed said that they would personally use a psychic in a police investigation and, when a psychic had been involved in a case, 41% of the time s/he was called in by a police officer.

 

[LONGTABBER PE]

Thank you for your response. I wanted to be clear on why police take "psychic leads" seriously to begin with. I'm sure If my sister or one of my parents went missing I would try everything I could to find them.

I wouldnt say they take them seriously ( I've never heard a favorable comment about one) but there are LEGITIMATE reasons for them using them that have nothing really to do with their "ability" ( real or imagined)

1) theres the million to 1 shot they "might" guess right

2) it does give families some hope and comfort as they see the LE "doing everything possible" ( that in itself means a LOT, trust me)

3) It 'can" have an intimidating influence on the perp ( you dont know what he/she believes and it has made them get nervous and screw up before. I know of one case where the psychic was talking what they saw and the perp started calling to contradict her and taunting and was eventually caught that way)

4) since theres the million to 1 shot they "might" be right- you cant afford the risk that if you DONT look into it and its later shown to be right ( or close to right then you have perception issues and media spin)- your ass and probably career is grass.

 

[LONGTABBER PE]

According to this survey -- http://stopcon.org/Police Psychics.htm -- 36% of police officers surveyed said that they would personally use a psychic in a police investigation and, when a psychic had been involved in a case, 41% of the time s/he was called in by a police officer.

I would question the validity of that survey based on personal experience and the fact most of them were probably telling what they thought they wanted to hear but my other post explains why they are used at times.