Police and Psychics

The sad thing is that she probably contradicts herself without knowing it. Believers tend to ignore flaws in their beliefs and the reasoning for those beliefs.
 
We must also bear in mind that these beliefs are rooted in the experience of the practitioners. That is to say, if one wished to wade thru the literature, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence. To deny that implies that these cultures exert energy for something with no perceivable value, a racist perspective.

We might also discuss the evidence from antiquity of the value of the Delphic and Sybiline oracles. Clear evidence of communication, except here with currently discounted Gods.

After that, we might discuss the evidence for witches. There I have at hand testamony of their activities. The interested parties might consult Nevins, Starkey, Hayward in preparation.

When you accept anecdotes, the world is truely demon haunted.

And there is not one jot of difference between the Mallius Malefacarum and the work of Schwartz or the blatherings of JE, SB, or any of the other current crop of frauds or their accolytes. If there is I would like to hear about it.
 
Actually, Ed, re toads...how sure are you that they -don't- respond to changes in barometric pressure and humidity (i.e. notice conditions for rain) before we ourselves actually can see the rain fall?

You think that primitive people using toads to forecast rain is preposterous, but why are you so sure of that?

I'm sure you've heard about the Spadefoot toad, the one that digs into the ground during the dry season and surrounds itself in a kind of moist coccoon to keep from drying out. This toad is sensitive to changes in humidity and reappears when the rain comes.

There are also frogs here in the US called the Spring Peeper which starts chorusing at lower temperatues than other frogs (mid 50s to 60s) and is therefore associated with the warming of the weather and the coming of spring. Amphibians are ectotherms, and are highly sensitive to the weather.

So, not that I really want to argue this with you (especially on a thread purportedly about Psychics and the Police), but does the idea that we might notice how toads respond to weather changes before we ourselves can see a storm coming really seem so preposterous to you? "Bringing" rain would just be an easy misconception for primitive people based on their noticing changed behavior in toads prior to the arrival of a storm. The explanation is wrong, but the phenomena itself is true.
 
Clancie said:
Actually, Ed, re toads...how sure are you that they -don't- respond to changes in barometric pressure and humidity (i.e. notice conditions for rain) before we ourselves actually can see the rain fall?

You think that primitive people using toads to forecast rain is preposterous, but why are you so sure of that?

I'm sure you've heard about the Spadefoot toad, the one that digs into the ground during the dry season and surrounds itself in a kind of moist coccoon to keep from drying out. This toad is sensitive to changes in humidity and reappears when the rain comes.
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The Spadefoot toad does not appear until after it rains:
URL=http://ccwild.cbi.tamucc.edu/naturalhistory/couch's_spadefoot_toad/csfacc.htm

They have been found as deep as one metre below the surface. Spadefoots are nocturnal, and are especially active after a rainfall.
Source
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Can be found above ground after rain, in flooded shrubland.
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Clancie said:
There are also frogs here in the US called the Spring Peeper which starts chorusing at lower temperatues than other frogs (mid 50s to 60s) and is therefore associated with the warming of the weather and the coming of spring. Amphibians are ectotherms, and are highly sensitive to the weather.

So, not that I really want to argue this with you (especially on a thread purportedly about Psychics and the Police), but does the idea that we might notice how toads respond to weather changes before we ourselves can see a storm coming really seem so preposterous to you? "Bringing" rain would just be an easy misconception for primitive people based on their noticing changed behavior in toads prior to the arrival of a storm. The explanation is wrong, but the phenomena itself is true.
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Not "prior to the arrival of a storm".
 
I have seem strong rain storms make it appear as if toad/frog were raining down on the road. I suspect that they were jumping out of the high grass along the roads to escape drowning. the strong wind might have blown them around too.


virgil
 
Same thing with earth worms (Lumbricus terrestris): We call them "rainworms" in Danish, because they seek the ground when it rains, to avoid drowning.

Before the rain, they stay out of sight. Jeeest like Toadie....
 
CFLarsen said:
Same thing with earth worms (Lumbricus terrestris): We call them "rainworms" in Danish, because they seek the ground when it rains, to avoid drowning.

Before the rain, they stay out of sight. Jeeest like Toadie....
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So we might persue the mundane explination for a connection between toads and weather or we might invoke the paranormal.

Clancie, do you see anything familiar here?

We'll move on to witches next.:D
 
Posted by Ed

So we might persue the mundane explination for a connection between toads and weather or we might invoke the paranormal.

Clancie, do you see anything familiar here?
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Yes. And I'm glad that I could point out that mundane explanation to you. :p

Ed,

There are numerous occurrences that have been given erroneous explanations in folklore. Many of these, like the toads and frogs, were natural phenomena, accurately observed but wrongly interpreted.

This fact does not, however, extrapolate as you hope it does. You can't argue that because some phenomena have erroneously been attributed to "paranormal" causes that therefore we know nothing "paranormal" can be real. It simply doesn't -necessarily- follow from unrelated examples.

Sorry, but no matter how many "folk beliefs" you trot out, from toads to witches, they don't -necessarily- have any bearing at all on psychic phenomena or mediumship.
 
Clancie said:

Yes. And I'm glad that I could point out that mundane explanation to you. :p

Ed,

There are numerous occurrences that have been given erroneous explanations in folklore. Many of these, like the toads and frogs, were natural phenomena, accurately observed but wrongly interpreted.

This fact does not, however, extrapolate as you hope it does. You can't argue that because some phenomena have erroneously been attributed to "paranormal" causes that therefore we know nothing "paranormal" can be real. It simply doesn't -necessarily- follow from unrelated examples.

Sorry, but no matter how many "folk beliefs" you trot out, from toads to witches, they don't -necessarily- have any bearing at all on psychic phenomena or mediumship.
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I never said that. I contend that the toad beliefs of the natives of the Orinoco are valid, as is the belief in witches amply bourne out by contemporary witnesses who testified under oath. Witches can fly, they do have familiars, they do the bidding of Satan who assumes a corporeal form.

Evidence is evidence and my personal experience cannot be denied.
 
Clancie said:

You think that primitive people using toads to forecast rain is preposterous, but why are you so sure of that?

.
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Not forecast, cause.
 
Clancie said:

Yes. And I'm glad that I could point out that mundane explanation to you. :p

Ed,

There are numerous occurrences that have been given erroneous explanations in folklore. Many of these, like the toads and frogs, were natural phenomena, accurately observed but wrongly interpreted.

This fact does not, however, extrapolate as you hope it does. You can't argue that because some phenomena have erroneously been attributed to "paranormal" causes that therefore we know nothing "paranormal" can be real. It simply doesn't -necessarily- follow from unrelated examples.

Sorry, but no matter how many "folk beliefs" you trot out, from toads to witches, they don't -necessarily- have any bearing at all on psychic phenomena or mediumship.
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Then why don't you believe that witches can fly and cast spells that directly affect others when there is so much anecdotal evidence available? There must be millions of people who believe, even today, that witches can do these things. Why don't you assent to the appeal to popularity for witchcraft, voodoo, shamanism, and the like?

What leads you to disbelieve in witchy phenomena?

What is so different about psychics and mediums, apart from the TV vogue?
 
The Mighty Thor said:
What leads you to disbelieve in witchy phenomena?

What is so different about psychics and mediums, apart from the TV vogue?
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I confronted a friend of mine, a believer in many matters woo, with this approach. She brought her dogs to acupuncturists, and chiropractors, fed them on a barf diet, and poured homeopathetic water down their throats. I listed as many alt med things as I could recall off-hand. She acknowledged she only believed in about 5%. Why? Why these and not the others?

After beating on this theme for some time, she finally confessed: "Because they sound right."

That was her total "thinking kit": does it sound right?

With this thinking kit, she screamed at her husband when she found out he was treating one of the dogs with an antibiotic for a urinary tract infection. She had heard it caused animals to become dizzy. He stopped. Not long afterward, the infection came back. This time, she decided to try the antibiotic. It didn't work. The microbes were now resistant to the antibiotic. She ended up having to go with a stronger antibiotic, with even more side effects because of her "thinking kit's" decision with regard to the first treatment.
 

There are numerous occurrences that have been given erroneous explanations in folklore.

Like.. mediumship?

Many of these, like the toads and frogs, were natural phenomena, accurately observed but wrongly interpreted.

And there are many acts of deception that have been wrongly interpreted, like mediumship.


This fact does not, however, extrapolate as you hope it does. You can't argue that because some phenomena have erroneously been attributed to "paranormal" causes that therefore we know nothing "paranormal" can be real. It simply doesn't -necessarily- follow from unrelated examples.

That's not the argument, the argument is that you are using anecdotes as evidence only when it suits your beliefs.

Sorry, but no matter how many "folk beliefs" you trot out, from toads to witches, they don't -necessarily- have any bearing at all on psychic phenomena or mediumship.

They sure do, because mediumship and psychic phenomena ARE folk beliefs. They are based purely on anecdotes and experience, not reliable evidence.

If you base your conclusion on anecdotal evidence, what is the difference between what you have concluded and what mud dripping savages have concluded?
 
(cough)
Lucianarchy said:
....As he claims to have that information, and as he claims that he will follow me and my family around, I am not going to post here or probably anywhere else again.

Yes, Claus. terrorism often does 'work'.

I have done nothing to deserve this treatment.

But I do keep records.

Best witches to everyone else.

Source
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(Emphasis mine)
 
Claus he changed his mind and this makes me happy because it means that he will answer the pending questions.
 
Cleopatra said:
Claus he changed his mind and this makes me happy because it means that he will answer the pending questions.
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LOL. Only when pigs fly.
 
Cleopatra said:
Claus he changed his mind and this makes me happy because it means that he will answer the pending questions.
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Let's see what he says.
 
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