Police and Psychics

Hello Steve,

Been away working for a while so i have not been to the boards for a while - hence the delay.

I forget that what is everyday to me is jargon to everyone else. Sorry!

A 5x5 (or to be more accurate a 5x5x5) is a short terminology for an intelligence report. Intelligence has three areas each with 5 grades attached to them. The first two are quality of the source, quality of the information. These are the most important. They are submitted by the reporting officer with their perception then they go to the intelligence unit who perform their validation and analysis before the intelligence is rated formally and placed on the intelligence database. All intelligence is auditable.

The third category is connected with dissemination of the info so is not of immediate concern to the matter at hand. Also most officers defer authority on this to the intel unit. That is why it is called a 5x5.

Any questions still? Please bring 'em on.
 
Thank you.

Does this exercise result in a score for the data/information and if so is there a scale attached to various score levels?
 
A sad note to update this thread.

The passing of Monty Keen.

Montague participated in this thread via Dr Grenard, for which we will remain eternaly grateful.

A man dedicated to truth, and the spirit of humanity.

Condolences to Montague's surving family.

See you later, Monty. Peace.



"I regret to inform you of the tragic death of my beloved husband, Montague Keen, on the 15th January. He died whilst attending a debate at the Royal Society of Arts, London. In accordance with his wishes, he will be cremated at 4pm on Thursday 22nd January at Hendon Crematorium, Holders Hill road, NW7. He will be in our home from 10am Wednesday until the time of the cremation. All friends welcome.

72 Southway, Totteridge, London N20 8DB.

Only family flowers, please; donations may be sent to the British Heart Foundation.

Veronica Keen


Some details from Dr. Bruce Greyson:

He was in the front row of the audience at the Royal Society of Arts for a debate between Rupert Sheldrake and Lewis Wolpert, the British skeptic. During the question-and-answer period, Monty rose to speak in support of Rupert, and in mid-sentence his voice faded and he lost consciousness from a heart attack. Two doctors in the audience immediately tried to resuscitate him, but he died in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. He was 79 and had had a triple bypass. He died as he would have wished, championing the cause of survival.



Bruce



Bruce Greyson, M.D.
Carlson Professor of Psychiatry
Division of Personality Studies
Department of Psychiatric Medicine
University of Virginia Health System"
 
Condolences to all who knew him. Anyone willing to debate deserves acknowledgement even when we disagree on points.

Steve, I have forgotten the above question - yes it does. The evidence is graded on reliability of the source and accuracy of the information. Like everything else a source gains credibility the more they provide accurate information. Psychics tend to hovver around the "one fluke hit" mark. Seldom are they heard of again.

A "dip test" of all my colleagues revealed that my original assertion (that the information is taken and the provider is viewed as a bit of a loon) is indeed correct. Out of everyone I have spoken to (service levels from 1 - 30 years) none have had positive experiences with so-called psychic leads.
 
Classic example;

I had to waste 30 minutes of my time two days ago plodding through a mire in Heaton Park because some dipstick had a "premonition". It was a "strong feeling that something was wrong" in a specific area of the park. Having been there in person this "visionary" found discarded clothes, a mattress and a photo of a mans genitalia. She had the premonition that "something terrible had happened".

Well, we plodded through mud, mud and a bit more mud to find....a popped lilo (near a lake), a manky old cardigan which had to have been at least 300 yards from the scene and ....that was it. Pathetic. This is absolutley typical of the sort of tripe that so called "psychics" come up with. Now bear in mind this genius had actually visited the scene and STILL got it wrong.

Now I wish to re-iterate a point here. I am NOT saying that i disbelieve in psychic phenomena; I am NOT saying I disbelieve in everything paranormal. What i AM saying (for the 300,00th time) is that....

POLICE DO NOT USE PSYCHICS BECAUSE THEY CANNOT PROVIDE RELIABLE INFORMATION.....period.

Luci, ignore me all you want but you are totally wrong on this subject and always will be. It will do you no harm to admit it - in fact it will boost your reputation.

An if we are talking about things having "been a while", when will you answer ANY questions of the "Larsen List"?
 
Lucianarchy said:
Stumpy, any sign of those guidelines you claimed existed. It's been a long time. :(
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I hope Stumps won't mind me commenting on his behalf - he's been extremely busy with work. I'm sure he'll get back to you when he can.
 
Ed said:
This entire discussion is absurd on the face of it (Figures, Luci started it).

Let us take a step back and look at this rationally.

I am going to make a big assumption now.

Police are judged/evaluated/promoted based, primarily on their track record in closing cases.

If that is not a primary indicator of success in police work, please state that now (and frankly, the only responses that a\will not be BS are those of Cops or city officials or some other political type).

IF this is so, and given the number of psychics crawling out of the woodwork (Steve said thousands, as I recall) would one not expect, if there were any value at all to these characters, that there would be a cop network, both within and accross departments, that knew about this stuff? Would it, in fact, not be ubiquitious? Is it?

No. This simple fact, the lack of awareness and public knowledge suggests that psychics don't add a whole lot and that their use is notable by infrequency. This whole area is Woo-wooism of the worst sort.
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Elequent, to the point, unaddressed. Once again the Jewish Cabel (tm) has made the language award slip from my grasp. Yet, the point remains.
 
I wish I had a nickle for every article printed in some Oshkosh periodical that claims someone as a "true" paranormal, and a million dollars for every one that is proved to be true. ;)
 
Interesting article, Mike. I'm sure those skeptics who are always hoping a psychic will "find a missing child" are already calling the police department to check this one:


Individuals who knew of Jordan's gifts recruited his assistance and within one hour of beginning his search, he successfully led a search team to the frightened boy who had been missing for 17 hours. Jordan said he used a map he envisioned the night before, and his mental capabilities to locate the boy, Tommy Kennedy, safe and alive - even after 200 searchers were unsuccessful in their attempts.
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I notice that his website adds this:


A short time thereafter, the Tioga County Sheriff had him sworn in as a Deputy to assist in other cases. He graduated from New York State Municipal Police Training Academy in 1976, and continues to work with the police agencies in all levels of government across the country. His cases include missing persons, homicide, and arson. His investigative skills and unusual abilities have earned him respect throughout the police agencies he has worked so closely with.
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He sounds well worth seeing on next week's LKL. :)
 
Chapter titled:

The Mythologised Psychic Detective: Phil Jordan, by Kenneth L. Feder and Michael Alan Park

Prometheus, 1994, 190 pp, appendices, index,
ISBN 0-87975-880-5

Psychic Sleuths is an in-depth look at those who supposedly use extraordinary powers to help solve crimes. Investigative writer Joe Nickell has put together a special "task force" of experienced researchers - professional magicians, private detectives, paranormal investigators and writers on pseudoscience - each of whom examined the claims of a famous psychic crimebuster and reported on him or her at chapter length. Featured are Gerard Croiset; Peter Hurkos ("The Man with the Radar Brain"), "superstar" Dorothy Allison; Noreen Renier, who "predicted" the assassination attempt on President Ronald Reagan; veteran psychic Bill Ward; Rosemarie Kerr; Phil Jordan; and Greta Alexander, who supposedly acquired her special abilities after being struck by lightning. An afterword by noted psychologist James E. Alcock offers an assessment of the psychics' claims in light of the investigative reports.
Representing a unique approach, Psychic Sleuths carefully examines specific claims made by individual psychics and the methods they actually use to obtain information about a particular case. Entertaining, informative and thought-provoking, this critical study will appeal to all - believers and skeptics alike - with an interest in psychic claims and the paranormal.

http://www.skeptic.de/index.php3?action=author&articleno=0177
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Anyone have this book?

Kopji edited to add more negative vibrations:
http://www.scifidimensions.com/Sep00/jnf_psychics.htm
 
Since those early days Jordan has worked on "hundreds of homicide cases" and countless cases involving missing persons, lost children, and even arson. His investigative skills and unusual abilities have lead to him working with police agencies in all levels of government across the country.
Source: Ithaca Times
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Sniff test: Not one of these "hundreds of homicide cases" can be identified.

Sniff test: Not one of these "countless cases involving missing persons, lost children, and even arson" can be identified.

Sniff test: Not one of these "police agencies in all levels of government across the country" can be identified.



Please remember that with any psychic consultation, it is for your own entertainment, amusement, and information and 100% accuracy cannot be guaranteed. Your own free will and the course of life's events can alter the course of a reading.
Source: philjordan.com
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Sniff test: If he gets lucky, it's because he is psychic. If he doesn't, it's your fault.

Please note that many times Phil receives telephone calls from individuals seeking his advice. Although it may be a simple question, often times it results in a lengthy conversation which takes time from his hectic schedule. For this reason, Phil generally does not involve himself with the office telephone communications.
Also, many of you have found out, when the following week's appointments have been filled...
Source: philjordan.com
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Sniff test: People give a lot of information a week before they get read. He has ample time - and a police deputy background - to dig up information.

He graduated from the prestigious Simmons School of Funeral Service in Syracuse, NY in 1988 and pass the requirements to be licensed as a New York State funeral director in 1989 and currently owns the Candor Funeral Parlour, Inc.
Source: philjordan.com
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Sniff test: He is very aware of how grieving people behave.

A Testimonial of Phil's Psychic Ability
In 1975, a six-year old boy became lost in the dense woods of Upstate New York during a fierce August thunderstorm. Individuals who remembered Phil Jordan's gifts recruited his assistance. Within one hour after beginning his search, Phil successfully led a search team to the frightened little boy who had been missing for 17 hours. Phil used a map he envisioned the night before, and his mental capabilities to locate Tommy Kennedy, safe and alive, after two hundred searchers were unsuccessful in their attempts. Phil totally credits the event of August 4, 1975 to his psychic ability.

A short time thereafter, the Tioga County Sheriff had him sworn in as a Deputy to assist in other cases. He graduated from New York State Municipal Police Training Academy in 1976, and continues to work with the police agencies in all levels of government across the country. His cases include missing persons, homicide, and arson. His investigative skills and unusual abilities have earned him respect throughout the police agencies he has worked so closely with.
Source: philjordan.com
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The episode detailed how Jordan in 1974 found a six-year old boy who became lost in the dense woods of Tioga County during a fierce August thunderstorm.

Individuals who knew of Jordan's gifts recruited his assistance and within one hour of beginning his search, he successfully led a search team to the frightened boy who had been missing for 17 hours. Jordan said he used a map he envisioned the night before, and his mental capabilities to locate the boy, Tommy Kennedy, safe and alive - even after 200 searchers were unsuccessful in their attempts.

Jordan will be on hand to discuss his recent appearance on "Psychic Detectives" and to talk about his nearly 30-year career helping authorities solve mysteries. A career that began with his discovery of Tommy Kennedy in 1974 and lead to his subsequent swearing in as a deputy in Tioga County (he would graduate from the New York State Municipal Police Training Academy in 1976).

Since those early days Jordan has worked on "hundreds of homicide cases" and countless cases involving missing persons, lost children, and even arson. His investigative skills and unusual abilities have lead to him working with police agencies in all levels of government across the country.
Source: Ithaca Times
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Sniff test: His reputation was not investigated by the Ithaca Times, but simply lifted from his website.
 
Clancie said:
Interesting article, Mike. I'm sure those skeptics who are always hoping a psychic will "find a missing child" are already calling the police department to check this one:

I notice that his website adds this:
[/b]

He sounds well worth seeing on next week's LKL. :) [/B]
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All of this is fine. You actually believe that a dead person can communicate with the living.

Do you believe that propiatiated toads can bring rain? Please tell me why or why not.
 
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