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Police and Psychics

Lucianarchy said:
I know 'psychics' aren't used in a legal sense
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Which is what we have been debating for days. This represents some progress.;)

Maybe they are used in the biblical sense?
 
Desi: I think people -- like me -- use them thar little " s around the word psychic because we don't believe there is such a thing. Sort of like talking about a patient in a mental hospital who thinks he is "Jesus" -- the likelyhood is that he aint. :)
 
Excellency - It's my lovely Lucy who's using the quote things isn't she?

I was hoping she would splain them for my friends here at the Copa.

(Do you know The Three Christs of Ypsilanti by Milton Rokeach - no quotes around those three sons of God)
 
Desianarchy said:
Excellency - It's my lovely Lucy who's using the quote things isn't she?

I was hoping she would splain them for my friends here at the Copa.

(Do you know The Three Christs of Ypsilanti by Milton Rokeach - no quotes around those three sons of God)
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My "bad"..."Ypsilanti" as in Michigan and or the Greek patrioit? But no, don't "know" it, as such. Have been to Ypsilanti, MI -- my folks used to threaten me with sending me to the Ypsilanti state home (which I think no longer exists). Oh well, I digress....:) :o
 
Hannibal said:
Luci, we have arrived at commonground. You are now stating pretty much what I have said all along (ignoring the "jesus" reference which I have already explained). It can be said now that Police do not employ psychics.

I don't want to continue on this subject any further as it is starting go off topic. I have never said psi/psychics/Ybo do not exist, merely that Police do not use them in any manner other than they would if it was any member of the public. I do not have velvet curtains and my beliefs are held close to my heart. Never assume I am stating anything beyond what I say. I challenged an assertion you made and now we have reached an agreement. Isn't that the purpose of debate? Don't you feel better?:)
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I have only ever claimed that the police will work with 'psychics' in a positive relationship and that they are not all dismissed in the manner you described. I also apologised about calling you a liar some time back, but you seemed to have missed that.

Anyway, best wishes and good luck in your new job.
 
Lucianarchy said:
The burden of proof is on *you* to back up your claim that this was 'cold reading'.
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True. But your claim: “this was a genuine psychic reading” is the extraordinary claim (in that it goes against all that is currently known about the laws of nature). So the burden of proof is on you to prove it was a psychic reading.

Obviously you can’t prove this. And since it has been demonstrated that it could have been cold reading, we have no need to believe it was a psychic reading to explain what happened.
 
What's a coincidence? Don't you remember the time I made you jealous with that fake Carlota Romero? And then, a singer by the same name is actually appearing in New York?

You gotta remember that one.

Now, that's a coincidence, honey.

Please come home now. Ethyl's finished the gin and she's getting into my rum and cigars.


(Ypsilanti Michigan asylum had three inmates claiming to be Jesus at one time - The Three Christs describes their meeting - unusual, but not to anyone who has spent time on this forum)
 
Lucianarchy said:


What coincidence?
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I think what Wolverine is getting at is that your adoration of Uri Geller destroys any credibility you may have had.
If your hero is a confirmed fraud and liar, why should your behaviour be any different.
 
RichardR said:

True. But your claim: “this was a genuine psychic reading” is the extraordinary claim (in that it goes against all that is currently known about the laws of nature). So the burden of proof is on you to prove it was a psychic reading.

Obviously you can’t prove this. And since it has been demonstrated that it could have been cold reading, we have no need to believe it was a psychic reading to explain what happened.
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First off, I have not made that claim , why on earth did you put that in quotes? I am providing evidence for the accuracy of 'psychics' when giving information to the Police. I have demonstrated the accuracy and there is no mundane rational explanation for the accuracy, particularly for 'pokie' . Cold Readers do *not* provide that sort of accuracy under those sort of conditions. If this woman were a 'cold reader' of that sort of accuracy, she'd be world famous, not having to live in a Council house !( not that there's anything wrong with that, but most would chose to move on if it were within their means). Second, it bloody well has *not* been demonstrated that it was Cold Reading, just claimed, no evidence what so ever! CR's aren't that accurate under those conditions, you know that, and you also know that if any were they would most likely to be gaining a damn good living from it. Whereas, most of those that *do* seem to have genuine 'psychic' ability appear to be more interested in helping others than making money.
 
I'm sorry fellas, but I can't control her any more.

Lucy, come home some time. I'll let you hold the baton and lead the band.
 
Lucianarchy said:
If this woman were a 'cold reader' of that sort of accuracy, she'd be world famous, not having to live in a Council house
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And the reasons psychics of such accuracy can't go 'round picking up reward money for doing what she is supposed to have done is...?


Whereas, most of those that *do* seem to have genuine 'psychic' ability appear to be more interested in helping others than making money.
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And the evidence of this person helping out on more than one case would be...?
 
budddyh said:


And the reasons psychics of such accuracy can't go 'round picking up reward money for doing what she is supposed to have done is...?




And the evidence of this person helping out on more than one case would be...?
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Good point buddyh. It makes one wonder why there is any crime at all. Shouldn't all these amazing psychics be solving them all?

It seems to me that psychics are doing quite a disservice to victim's families by allowing unsolved crimes to remain so.
 
Lucianarchy said:
The burden of proof is on *you* to back up your claim that this was 'cold reading'.

Originally posted by RichardR

True. But your claim: “this was a genuine psychic reading” is the extraordinary claim (in that it goes against all that is currently known about the laws of nature). So the burden of proof is on you to prove it was a psychic reading.

Obviously you can’t prove this. And since it has been demonstrated that it could have been cold reading, we have no need to believe it was a psychic reading to explain what happened.
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Parismony Lucy, Occams Razor. If I claim that Santa Claus (Father Christmas) visited my house on Christmas eve and you didn't believe me it would be my responsibilty to prove it happened. Not your's to prove that it didn't.

Your evidence is less than wanting.
 
Lucianarchy said:
First off, I have not made that claim , why on earth did you put that in quotes? I am providing evidence for the accuracy of 'psychics' when giving information to the Police. I have demonstrated the accuracy and there is no mundane rational explanation for the accuracy, particularly for 'pokie' . Cold Readers do *not* provide that sort of accuracy under those sort of conditions.
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Calm down. I put it in quotes for clarity. However, you are making the claim that this was a psychic reading, are you not?

For this to be proof of psychic powers, we have to eliminate all other possibilities. Your whole case for this appears to be the word “pokie”. However, there are non-psychic ways she could have got that name. Hannibal gave you one example of how that could have been done (technically a warm reading, but still a possible natural explanation). So there is no proof here of psychic powers at work. End of story.

Lucianarchy said:
If this woman were a 'cold reader' of that sort of accuracy, she'd be world famous, not having to live in a Council house !( not that there's anything wrong with that, but most would chose to move on if it were within their means). Second, it bloody well has *not* been demonstrated that it was Cold Reading, just claimed, no evidence what so ever! CR's aren't that accurate under those conditions, you know that, and you also know that if any were they would most likely to be gaining a damn good living from it. Whereas, most of those that *do* seem to have genuine 'psychic' ability appear to be more interested in helping others than making money.
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I don’t get your logic here. If she were a cold reader with this degree of accuracy she would be world famous and have more money. But a psychic with this degree of accuracy would not be world famous and would not have money. Don’t be daft, a psychic (a real one) could make a million dollars off Randi in no time. And she would be famous, trust me.

But to follow your point to its logical conclusion, you must therefore agree that Uri Geller does not have real paranormal powers. After all, he certainly is famous and I’ll bet he does not live in a council house. So by your logic he cannot have “genuine 'psychic' ability”. Thanks for the insight.
 
KelvinG said:
I think what Wolverine is getting at is that your adoration of Uri Geller destroys any credibility you may have had. If your hero is a confirmed fraud and liar, why should your behaviour be any different.
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Actually that's not where I was headed, but I certainly like your point, KelvinG. :)

My sarcastic mention of "coincidence" points to the comments made (originally pointed out by Claus here ) which Lucianarchy denies being his, from the New Age Wackos discussion forum.

Yes, of course, there must be an infinite number of users that post to message boards devoted to skepticism under the name "Lucianarchy" who in addition to being journalists and Uri Geller devotees also practice magic/Wicca, and have similar IP addresses. :rolleyes: I must be beyond foolish to assume there's any possibility this Lucianarchy could have authored and directed disparaging remarks toward James Randi and this web site. ;)
 
Wolverine said:


Actually that's not where I was headed, but I certainly like your point, KelvinG. :)

My sarcastic mention of "coincidence" points to the comments made (originally pointed out by Claus here ) which Lucianarchy denies being his, from the New Age Wackos discussion forum.

Yes, of course, there must be an infinite number of users that post to message boards devoted to skepticism under the name "Lucianarchy" who in addition to being journalists and Uri Geller devotees also practice magic/Wicca, and have similar IP addresses. :rolleyes: I must be beyond foolish to assume there's any possibility this Lucianarchy could have authored and directed disparaging remarks toward James Randi and this web site. ;)
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Right, you despicable piece of work. Get this. What you are referring to is most certainly NOT me, provide your evidence about IP addresses or shut up. Do it. Any idiot can write stuff under your name on the 'net to make it look like you, you must realise that, or are you really just very, very stupid??

This is exactly the sort of thing fanatics do, and you're doing it just because you don't agree with what I am saying. Pathetic.

I hope those who have been discussing censorship are reading this.
 
Lucianarchy said:


Right, you despicable piece of work. Get this. What you are referring to is most certainly NOT me, provide your evidence about IP addresses or shut up. Do it. Any idiot can write stuff under your name on the 'net to make it look like you, you must realise that, or are you really just very, very stupid??

This is exactly the sort of thing fanatics do, and you're doing it just because you don't agree with what I am saying. Pathetic.

I hope those who have been discussing censorship are reading this.
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Methinks the lady(?) dost protest too much.
 
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