Poetry - and how I suck at interpreting it

[bruto]

Here is one that I would struggle with to the point of frustration.
Ted Hughes can paint wonderful images, but for overall meaning I am lost


https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/browse?contentId=29571

I think this may well be one of those poems to which the phrase "overall meaning" is inapplicable, being more of a visual impression than a lesson - but my impression is mainly of the poet staggering out of a pub at night, and realizing that he's about to puke in the same river Wordsworth did, and generally feeling rather pessimistic at the realization that the society itself is not so badly represented by the open sewer of the Thames. Or something.

 

[Darat]

I have a love hate thing with poetry. I think the hate comes in when there is some sort of implication of a message, usually near the end, which is some sort of gotcha line that 'makes the overall point' of the poem, and which I inevitably completely miss. It happens in literature and movies with me too. I have more of a logical procedural mind, so I miss symbolism and subltely like crazy. Once someone points it out to me its bloody obvious of course, but I cant work it out on my own.

I love all the metaphors and similies and all the other devices, its more of the big picture I am useless at.

Its especially frustrating because often I KNOW there is something there I'm supposed to be 'getting', but I just cant 'see' it.

That's not your fault, it's like someone saying all I am going to use in a conversation is vowel sounds and you have to understand me and if you don't understand me that's your fault. When someone is claiming to communicate with someone else and then they quite deliberately and with malice aforethought make it harder than necessary for the audience to understand them the fault is with the person claiming to want to communicate not the audience.

Poetry is simply "oh look how clever I am" pretension.

For a more in-depth look into this pretension: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123177

 

[Donn]

Here's one just for you Magrat aka whatever kind of kitten that was I forget....

No metaphors and meta analyses and cribs required, and the person who wrote it got a Nobel prize too.

http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/true-love-368/

edit to add: One of the least controversial Nobels of recent years, for good reason.

Yeah, I didn't enjoy that at all. Hard to put a finger on why. I sometimes switch into lyrics-mode and think, "would this sounds better as a song?" In this case, nope.

 

[The Sparrow]

Ok, I don't feel so bad now.

 

[Donn]

Ok, I don't feel so bad now.

Yay! Job done.

 

[marplots]

If there's something that bugs me about interpreting poetry, it's when a line is extracted and used in a way that counteracts the actual meaning in the poem.

I have in mind the line, "Good fences make good neighbors" from Robert Frost's Mending Wall.

Here is the text: http://writing.upenn.edu/~afilreis/88/frost-mending.html
Here is the poet reading it:


For me, the line with the most depth in this poem is -
He moves in darkness as it seems to me~
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.

 

[Donn]

For me, the line with the most depth in this poem is -
He moves in darkness as it seems to me~
Not of woods only and the shade of trees.

That's something else. Thanks for the link.

You are right about those lines. He describes a trait of the neighbour by what is not. Really neatly done. It has a way of swelling beyond the poem. The darkness of tradition seen from one who is sceptical of the wall building.

I feel those parts where they handle the stone; where I live we are on a mountain slope and every hole you dig is rock after rock. We have built walls too, dry stone, many gloved.

 

[marplots]

Frost is so plain spoken and so terribly good that I can only do about one poem of his every six months or so. The last one I listened to was The Death of the Hired Man - achingly beautiful.

 

[Donn]

Frost is so plain spoken and so terribly good that I can only do about one poem of his every six months or so. The last one I listened to was The Death of the Hired Man - achingly beautiful.

That was harder; perhaps the speech patterns being unfamiliar to me. I enjoyed parts of it.

 

[Bikewer]

I have always loved the old sort of narrative or "story" poetry. Service and Kipling and all that sort of thing.
"The Yarn Of The Nancy Belle" and "The Cremation Of Sam McGee" and "The Ballad Of East and West"....

You get the drift. Unambiguous story-telling, often with a goodly dose of humor.

Some years ago, I started looking into the more modern material and read through a number of collections of more avant-gard material (don't ask me for examples...)

Anyway, I rather rapidly came to the opinion that the idea of these writers was to take perhaps a rather simple idea and then conceal it in such obscurity that it could not possibly be understood unless the poet told you.
This is not dissimilar, I suppose, to certain trends in modern painting....

There was also quite a lot of material that was not obscure, but very angry and depressing. We had a book of material from contemporary American Indian poets...Wow. Make you want to go out and find a bridge to jump off of.

I do like classic haiku.... The idea of "capturing" a moment with a few lines seems very appealing to me, and the Japanese masters did this very well, even in translation. However, the form seems greatly abused since it's one of those things that "everyone can do".

 

[sphenisc]

Do you like Kipling?

 

[bruto]

Yeah, I didn't enjoy that at all. Hard to put a finger on why. I sometimes switch into lyrics-mode and think, "would this sounds better as a song?" In this case, nope.

To each his own, I guess. I really like Szymborska. It's true her stuff does not fit well into songs, but I like it anyway. Of course one must remember also that it's a translation. I think she does a good job of expressing complicated ideas in relatively few words. I have a tendency to see or hear an idea and think to myself "there's a joke about that" or "there's a poem about that" and often the poem about that is one of hers.

I have always loved the old sort of narrative or "story" poetry. Service and Kipling and all that sort of thing.
"The Yarn Of The Nancy Belle" and "The Cremation Of Sam McGee" and "The Ballad Of East and West"....

You get the drift. Unambiguous story-telling, often with a goodly dose of humor.

Some years ago, I started looking into the more modern material and read through a number of collections of more avant-gard material (don't ask me for examples...)

Anyway, I rather rapidly came to the opinion that the idea of these writers was to take perhaps a rather simple idea and then conceal it in such obscurity that it could not possibly be understood unless the poet told you.
This is not dissimilar, I suppose, to certain trends in modern painting....

There was also quite a lot of material that was not obscure, but very angry and depressing. We had a book of material from contemporary American Indian poets...Wow. Make you want to go out and find a bridge to jump off of.

I do like classic haiku.... The idea of "capturing" a moment with a few lines seems very appealing to me, and the Japanese masters did this very well, even in translation. However, the form seems greatly abused since it's one of those things that "everyone can do".

I also don't much like it when it seems as if one has taken a simple idea and used poetry to obscure it rather than to illustrate it. I find it sometimes in movies too, in which it seems someone has taken a clear idea and then removed its clarity on purpose, a sort of adolescent "how clever I am" that leaves me cold. It's one thing to have something ambiguous and open to interpretation, and another to feel one is being tested.

If you like a more traditional form for poetry, don't neglect Edwin Arlington Robinson, who stuck largely to a ballad format while still getting pretty serious.

http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/mr-flood-s-party/

 

[Resume]

For I can snore like a bullhorn
or play loud music
or sit up talking with any reasonably sober Irishman
and Fergus will only sink deeper
into his dreamless sleep, which goes by all in one flash,
but let there be that heavy breathing
or a stifled come-cry anywhere in the house
and he will wrench himself awake
and make for it on the run . . .

https://www.poets.org/poetsorg/poem/after-making-love-we-hear-footsteps

Easy-peasy.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

Do you like Kipling?

I don't think I've ever kippled

I do quite like him. If reminds me too much of Margaret Thatcher, but I'm fond of The Gods of The Copy Book Headings and Gunga Din

 

[The Sparrow]

Here's one just for you Magrat aka whatever kind of kitten that was I forget....

No metaphors and meta analyses and cribs required, and the person who wrote it got a Nobel prize too.

http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/true-love-368/

edit to add: One of the least controversial Nobels of recent years, for good reason.

I don't mind it overall, but, how shall I say, there's nothing.....poetic about it. It just strikes me as prose broken into verses

 

[The Sparrow]

Do you like Kipling?

I don't know yet, but I'm gonna find out

 

[The Sparrow]

To each his own, I guess. I really like Szymborska. It's true her stuff does not fit well into songs, but I like it anyway. Of course one must remember also that it's a translation. I think she does a good job of expressing complicated ideas in relatively few words. I have a tendency to see or hear an idea and think to myself "there's a joke about that" or "there's a poem about that" and often the poem about that is one of hers.


I also don't much like it when it seems as if one has taken a simple idea and used poetry to obscure it rather than to illustrate it. I find it sometimes in movies too, in which it seems someone has taken a clear idea and then removed its clarity on purpose, a sort of adolescent "how clever I am" that leaves me cold. It's one thing to have something ambiguous and open to interpretation, and another to feel one is being tested.

If you like a more traditional form for poetry, don't neglect Edwin Arlington Robinson, who stuck largely to a ballad format while still getting pretty serious.

http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/mr-flood-s-party/

I like!

 

[The Sparrow]

I think sometimes I trap myself. If its too clear and easy I find it.....trivial. Which is totally my pretentious snobbery. If its too obscure and difficult, I get frustrated and fall into a 'all poetry is pretentious crap' mindset.

Talking about it like this is good. Its helping me re-open my mind to whats out there, and I'm learning about new poets from your links.