Plume in Flight 93 photo is different

[Killtown]

I don't know. How big do YOU think it should be, and how did you determine that figure?

I basically started the radius point at the crater and drew a circle around the section of forest that was burned and excavated afterward. And based on videos of large planes crashing and judging the size their explosions and smoke plumes grew to.

I think my explosion size is still a tad bigger than the crash would have made.

 

[Killtown]

RE 1) No, I do not feel it is 'a "tad" large'. It is within the dimensions provided by the engineer. The calculations posted by Buckwheatjones have not been contradicted/debunked/etc.

RE 2) The flight data recorder info posted earlier in this thread.

RE 3) What path? Which line? If you are referring to the drift of the plume, it is not on the image I posted. Given the information I provided; anyone wishing to reproduce it can do so.

1) "10,000 gallons of jet fuel could give rise to a plume of about 500-600m.""

Where did he come up with 10,000 gals were still in at time of crash?

2) That's right. Hmmm, 9 to 25. Quite a difference, huh?

3) Your yellow vertical line by the crater and pond

 

[Killtown]

I resorted to those techniques because you refused to answer the same questions repeatedly in other forums.

I did huh?

 

[Stellafane]

If you can prove I "destroyed -- and quite possibly endangered" her life.

She says she is now being frequently harassed, and actually fears for her life, due to your actions. Since other CT'ers have threatened the lives of those who don't agree with them (see threats to MarkyX and billzilla for instance) those are hardly unfounded fears. How would you like to go through the day fearful of your life, simply because you innocently snapped a picture that contradicts someone's theory? I'd sure call that having my life destroyed and endangered, wouldn't you? And you, who hides behind the veil of total anonymity, are hardly in position to dismiss her fears, are you?

Your actions have adversely impacted an innocent person's life, far more than any namecalling on this board could possibly impact yours. So, are you going to apologize for it? Don't you have any compassion for other people at all? Don't you feel any sense of responsibility for your actions?

 

[Stellafane]

i cant believe im sortof defending killtown, but val macclatcheys home address is pretty easy to come by, anyone with half a brain could find it (although i think its amusing killtown seems to be the only CT capable of finding it)

So what? When you write that she's a fraud and fake, and then post her address, phone number, and other personal information, it certainly calls into question your motives for doing so. Val feels that Killtown is responsible for the harassment she's currently being subjected to. I believe she's correct -- without Killtown's derogatory comments about her, accompanied by posting her personal info, in all likelihood this wouldn't be happening to her. The fact that someone could have followed some other means of finding her hardly lets Killtown off the hook.

 

[Killtown]

1) She says she is now being frequently harassed, and actually fears for her life, due to your actions.

2) Since other CT'ers have threatened the lives of those who don't agree with them (see threats to MarkyX and billzilla for instance) those are hardly unfounded fears.

3) simply because you innocently snapped a picture that contradicts someone's theory?

1) Where does she say this?

2) What does that have to do with me?

3) Actually, I think her photo SUPPORTS my theory!!!

 

[Dog Town]

If he will, I will!
K? Wudda ya say?


DT

 

[Stellafane]

1) Where does she say this?

2) What does that have to do with me?

3) Actually, I think her photo SUPPORTS my theory!!!

1. As you farkin' well know, Killtown, she says it here:

www.post-gazette.com/pg/06218/711239-85.stm

Here, I'll even snip the relevant quote:

..."This Killtown, whoever he may be, I find it very disturbing that this is a 16-page attack on me personally," said Mrs. McClatchey, who opened her real estate company a year and a half ago. "My business is named. That hurts me personally. It's pretty disturbing. My whole life is out there, a map to where I live, a map to my office. It's a safety issue for me. There's some crazy people out there."

2. The fact that you can't see your role in this speaks volumes towards you total lack of normal empathy and compassion for the people you hurt. Seriously dude, you got some major-league issues you ought to be dealing with, rather than wasting your time responding to me and the other people on this board.

3. You're the only one who thinks so, my friend. For the rest of us, it disproves it. And you fully realize this, I suspect. Otherwise why would you post derogatory stuff about someone whose picture actually supports your theory?

I have one final question for you, and then I'm probably done with this thread -- all BS aside, why are you doing this? It's got to be abundantly clear to even you that all your arguments have been utterly evaporated many times over, and no one here has been budged a single millimeter by them.

Val's picture is a perfect metaphor for your theories: going up in smoke.

 

[Killtown]

If he will, I will!
K? Wudda ya say?

DT

I forget, what did you call me again?

 

[Killtown]

1. "This Killtown, whoever he may be, I find it very disturbing that this is a 16-page attack on me personally," said Mrs. McClatchey, who opened her real estate company a year and a half ago. "My business is named. That hurts me personally. It's pretty disturbing. My whole life is out there, a map to where I live, a map to my office. It's a safety issue for me. There's some crazy people out there."

2. The fact that you can't see your role in this speaks volumes towards you total lack of normal empathy and compassion for the people you hurt.

3. You're the only one who thinks so, my friend. For the rest of us, it disproves it. And you fully realize this, I suspect. Otherwise why would you post derogatory stuff about someone whose picture actually supports your theory?

4) why are you doing this?

1) Ok, where did she say the things you said she said?

2) No, I can't see my role. What did I do?

3) Derogatory stuff such as?

4) Cause her story doesn't add up. Didn't you read?...

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/07/val-mcclatchey-photo-more-smoking-guns.html

 

[Earl The Tall]

1) Ok, where did she say the things you said she said?

Holy Crap! The link was right there. Why did you not bother to click it. Never mind here is the answer. It is from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. She said in in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette! One more time in case you miss it.

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

 

[Stellafane]

1) Ok, where did she say the things you said she said?

2) No, I can't see my role. What did I do?

3) Derogatory stuff such as?

4) Cause her story doesn't add up. Didn't you read?...

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/07/val-mcclatchey-photo-more-smoking-guns.html

OK, one final time:

1. I included the link to the article the quote was taken from. Didn't you see it?
2. No, I suppose you can't. I guess that's the difference between us (one of many, I suspect). I think what you did was very wrong, but I suppose in the end that's a matter of personal perspective. Different strokes and all that.
3. Val considers it very derogatory. I think she's in best position to judge.
4. If you believe nothing else I ever write, please believe this: I will never, ever set foot in your blog.

 

[Gravy]

I did huh?

Yup. Want to know how I know that? Because I asked them.

 

[Killtown]

OK, one final time:

1. I included the link to the article the quote was taken from. Didn't you see it?
2. I think what you did was very wrong
3. Val considers it very derogatory. I think she's in best position to judge.
4. If you believe nothing else I ever write, please believe this: I will never, ever set foot in your blog.

1) Yes, I know that article well, I just didn't see that things in it that you claim was. Show how what she says parallels what you claim.

2) Such as? You're not being very specific.

3) Well if she's in on it some one, of course she is going to say that!

4) I'm crushed.

5) What if it turns out that she did fake her story, she fabbed the pic, or the FBI fabbed the pic and she went along with it. What would you think about my story about her then?

 

[Gravy]

i cant believe im sortof defending killtown, but val macclatcheys home address is pretty easy to come by, anyone with half a brain could find it (although i think its amusing killtown seems to be the only CT capable of finding it)

That's quite true. Unfortunately, Killtown chose to publish her address, phone number, email, and business information, while accusing her of creating fradulent evidence about 9/11.

How would Killtown like to be harassed because someone publicly lied about him?

 

[Gravy]

5) What if it turns out that she did fake her story, she fabbed the pic, or the FBI fabbed the pic and she went along with it. What would you think about my story about her then?

That may be the most ignorant statement I've encountered in my time dealing with 9/11 CTs.

 

[Stellafane]

1) Yes, I know that article well, I just didn't see that things in it that you claim was. Show how what she says parallels what you claim.

2) Such as? You're not being very specific.

3) Well if she's in on it some one, of course she is going to say that!

4) I'm crushed.

5) What if it turns out that she did fake her story, she fabbed the pic, or the FBI fabbed the pic and she went along with it. What would you think about my story about her then?

One final time (really!)

1. You're just being deliberately idiotic now. I gave you the link, I quoted from the article. You can't possibly be so thick you can't find the quote I copied in the article.
2. It's plenty specific to me, and I suspect also to others equipped with compassion and empathy. But I can only speak for myself.
3. And if she's not, you're defaming an innocent person.
4.
5.In that case, I owe you an abject apology. Now what if you're a Jew-hating Nazi who jerks off each night while gazing fondly at the life-size photo of Hitler hanging above your bed? Would I then be justified in calling you an anti-Semite without qualification or apology? We can play "what if" forever. But "what if" doesn't justify destroying someone else's life.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

1) "10,000 gallons of jet fuel could give rise to a plume of about 500-600m.""

Where did he come up with 10,000 gals were still in at time of crash?

2) That's right. Hmmm, 9 to 25. Quite a difference, huh?

3) Your yellow vertical line by the crater and pond

RE 1) It's all in the post that Buckwheatjones provided. He was quoting the engineer verbatim.

RE 2) A moot difference. The 9 knots came from you, iirc. The 25 came from the FDR.

RE 3) That is the height of the triangle formed by VH, V1, V2 at the point where the average of the values of the drift landed.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

5) What if it turns out that she did fake her story, she fabbed the pic, or the FBI fabbed the pic and she went along with it. What would you think about my story about her then?

what if it turns out the pic is real, and it is of flight 93, and you did ruin her life? what would you think of yourself then?

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Arkan_Wolfshade, I afraid I can't help you with your above question, but I just wanted to know if you think my diagram is accurate if we hypothesize that my explosion sizes are accurate?

My critique of your diagram from post #471 http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1849607#post1849607

1) Your southern vector line appears to be bisecting the white barn. Since the plume does not appear to go further south than the northern point of the white barn this adds a significant amount of error once you get out ~2000m

2) I question the accuracy of either your northern vector line and/or your crater placement as my calculations place the crater north of the northern vector line. Since you do not provide the coordinates for you crater location I can neither verify, nor confirm its placement on your diagram.

3) You do not provide any evidence, math, etc to back your assertion that a plume ~1000' is a "realistic size"