Plume in Flight 93 photo is different

[Pardalis]

She said they timed her at "about 5 seconds".

Where does she say that?

 

[Buckwheatjones]

buckwheatjones, welcome. Although as a skeptic I would note that your mentioning your source is a nuclear engineer is a blatant Appeal to Authority...

Albeit that said authority can do the math, something that is often lacking in most CT'ers...

I would also note that as an owner of a digital camera, unless she had it turned on, she would have had to wait several seconds (if the camera is anything like mine) for the lens guard to clear and the camera come to life.

If I had to make up a timeline (and this is speculation only, mind you, nothing provable here), it would look something like this.

0-1 seconds---Flight 93 crashes. Ground wave transmitted, fireball begins.

1-3 seconds--combination ground wave/shock of seeing crash "almost knocks her off the couch"

3-8 seconds--sees smoke cloud rising, hears 'boom' of crash, momentarity stunned (I mean, how many of us would react immediately in those conditions?)

8-12 seconds--picks up phone to call 911, finds phone dead.

12-15 seconds--grabs camera that is close at hand, turns on as runs for door.

15-19 seconds--exits door, takes position, brings camera up to focus on growing cloud.

20 seconds---takes picture.

Now this is done not knowing the layout of the house or how close things were to her at the time. This may cause the time to vary--my scenario allows, IMHO, that things were very close at hand.

And as Mercutio said earlier, without timepieces we can be lousy judges of how much time has elapsed. I referee soccer, and when I check my stopwatch for elapsed time, I am almost always off by several minutes in how much time has passed--and I have been refereeing a long time...

Again, just a mental exercise, but for your consideration...

Edited to add: and lets give Killtown some time; after all, he is trying to defend this argument of his on multiple boards, given the evidence here, and he can't spend ALL his time with us..

Accounting for adrenaline rush, the "WTF? Factor" and general confusion, failed recollection of the time compression is certainly to be expected. I think your account is generous enough, and would even suppose it to have been longer than that. However, the only conclusive way to determine how long the time lag would have been would be to check the metadata in the file and compare the time stamp with the official time when 93 crashed, thereby producing the time lag.

Now since mister killtown has done his best to alienate this woman, it is doubtful--assuming she still has the original file-- that she would ever share that information with him. But I think that's about the only way to get a hard answer.

As for being patient with him, you're probably right. However, I used up a lot of that on another board, and since he invited everybody there to come over here I took him up on his offer. But if it's wearing him down, he shouldn't spread himself so thin.

 

[Pardalis]

Are they talking about you Killtown?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06218/711239-85.stm

ETA: Naughty Killtown.

 

[twinstead]

Are they talking about you Killtown?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06218/711239-85.stm

ETA: Naughty Killtown.

Jeeze killtown if you are the 'killtown' they are talking about, you are pretty much a total d#ck.

IMHO of course.

 

[Pardalis]

Have you got no shame Killtown?

 

[defaultdotxbe]

buckwheatjones: you wouldnt happen to post on xbox-scene as buckwheat, would you?

 

[Buckwheatjones]

Nope. The extent of my gaming is an old copy of Centipede. I post on RightNation, and except for here, that's it.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Nope. The extent of my gaming is an old copy of Centipede. I post on RightNation, and except for here, that's it.

good, that guy annoys me, although your ability to string words into coherent sentences should have told me you were someone else

 

[Buckwheatjones]

Wow, I just checked your link. That guy's a major league jerk. Hope I sound more educated than that!

 

[twinstead]

Wow, I just checked your link. That guy's a major league jerk. Hope I sound more educated than that!

Well, unless you sound like a spittle-spewing card-carrying paranoid schizophrenic, you are probably safe

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

She said they timed her at "about 5 seconds".

Link?

So far all I am finding are the following:

Val McClatchey heard the 757 roar over Indian Lake, three miles east of where it would crash. She had been watching the "Today" show, with footage from New York, and now the Pentagon.

She looked out the window, above the red barns. She caught a glimpse of it, like light off a watch face. Then nothing, and then a boom that nearly knocked her off the couch.

The lights went out. The phones, too.

She grabbed her camera. She stepped onto the front porch and shot one frame of the smoke cloud, a charcoal puff in a pure blue sky.

source: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_90823.html

Val McClatchey snapped the single picture with her new digital camera. The wife and mother had been sitting on the edge of her sofa, clutching her second cup of coffee and watching the smoking towers of the World Trade Center on TV, when she heard the sudden surge of a plane engine, followed by a violent, house-shaking boom. Mrs. McClatchey grabbed the camera and ran onto the front porch of her house along Indian Lake.

source: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06218/711239-85.stm

The only sources I have seen quoting "5 seconds" are your blog, and similar; none of which appear to be quoting verbatim with a reference, but rather are paraphrasing.

 

[Killtown]

1) Since it mentions that "the phones went out," this suggests Val's first thought was to call emergency services -- admirable presence of mind if this is so -- and only then go for her camera. Impossible in five seconds.

2) This also changes the interpretation of her being "knocked off her couch," if her initial impression was that of a small plane crash. She was behind a window, so clearly not a shockwave. It must simply have been startling. I can easily imagine that!

3) At this time, the smoke cloud appears to be entirely within expected bounds.

1) No, Val said after she took her one photo, she tried but could't call from her cell, so she went up to her saw mill to call. she said Indian Lake has bad cell phone reception.

2) "a violent, house-shaking boom"

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/07/val-mcclatchey-photo-more-smoking-guns.html

3) Nope.

 

[Belz...]

1) No, Val said after she took her one photo, she tried but could't call from her cell, so she went up to her saw mill to call. she said Indian Lake has bad cell phone reception.

What ?? That's just a cover story. The explosion you see in the picture is actually a miniature nuclear device. Obviously, the EMP would prevent the use of the cell phone, and would explain why she only took one picture before her camera exploded.

 

[twinstead]

But killtown, was it really necessary for you to be a jerk to her? I know you have the dead-set belief you are totally right (like many crazy people do), but what if you are wrong? What if you are harassing an innocent person?

Your people skills are as obviously flawed as your investigative skills. You would not only be laughed out of a courtroom due to lack of REAL evidence, but held in contempt as well for your attitude.

As always, IMHO

 

[Killtown]

As for why there was no inferno, I'm guessing it's because of the nose-dive into soft earth. If the crash was violent enough to bury much of the plane, it could have buried much of the fuel too.

Looks at the excavating photos. See any wet soggy "soft dirt" from all the thousands of gals of jet fuel?

http://killtown.911review.org/flight93/gallery.html

 

[Killtown]

If not, isn't logical to assume that this plume of smoke is from the crash of flight 93?

And if you look at the physics of a bumble bee, logic says it can't fly.

 

[twinstead]

killtown exactly what qualifies you to judge the legitimacy of crash sites again?

 

[rwguinn]

And if you look at the physics of a bumble bee, logic says it can't fly.

Logic also says that a lead ball will fall faster than a chunk of lava rock the same size, and that the sun circles the earth on a daily basis.
It depends on what your knowledge base is to begin with.
When you start at zero, everything looks logical -- or so I would imagine.

 

[Killtown]

1) 8-12 seconds--picks up phone to call 911, finds phone dead.

2) 12-15 seconds--grabs camera that is close at hand, turns on as runs for door.

3) 15-19 seconds--exits door, takes position, brings camera up to focus on growing cloud.

1) No, she specifically said she tried to call AFTER the photo.

2) She had her camera "ready" by the door awaiting a helicopter flybye. It's not a stretch to assume for already had her camera on.

3) She said she "didn't even aim".

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/07/val-mcclatchey-photo-more-smoking-guns.html

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

1) No, Val said after she took her one photo, she tried but could't call from her cell, so she went up to her saw mill to call. she said Indian Lake has bad cell phone reception.

Link to corroborating evidence?