Please help me snap out of it!

L2B22

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Aug 20, 2007
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I am multi-cultural, trilingual, and consider myself to be a person of slightly above average intelligence (115 IQ, nothing special). My whole life I have always felt as if the education system was letting me down; I was never challenged and easily lost interest in my classes even through honors classes in high school. I was bored with my homework and never did it but was able to do decent on exams (A- to B-/C+) considering I was never really paying attention.

As a result I got poor grades, had to go to the JC in my area, and am now at a mediocre college, where once again I am bored, not challenged, and wishing there was something out there for me.

I stumbled across the site and it's exactly what I've been looking for; people who THINK! People who don't just listen to the hows and whats that society feeds us but people who ask WHY. It seems that the education system is failing to teach critical thinking in the classroom, which produces ignorant followers. Now I feel like I am way behind the rest of the world in regards to my critical thinking skills.

My queuestion to you guys: How can I improve my critical thinking skills? Is there any material I can read to improve my logic skills? Thanks in advance.
 
Glad you like the site. I do too, mostly.

Regarding links to skeptical tutorials, others here are more knowledgeable than I.

Just wanted to say, Hi.
 
Suggestions for books available as inexpensive paperbacks on Amazon:
Randi: Flim Flam, and other titles that you find interesting.
Sagan: The Demon Haunted World
Gilovich: How We Know What Isn't So
Good luck and feel free to ask questions here.
 
I feel for you. Seriously, I do. You've fallen foul not so much of a bad system but rather a bad run of mediocre, uninspiring educators.

Taking ahold of your own education can be a good thing if you're dissatisfied. Find social groups and societies which can offer you something by way of resources and stimulating discussion. Feel free to use this place (it is indeed a good one). Read the books Jeff suggested above.

Unfortunately none of these things can grant you accreditation of any sort. But it will illuminate some opportunities for you.

Welcome aboard!

Athon
 
L2B22 said:
My queuestion to you guys: How can I improve my critical thinking skills? Is there any material I can read to improve my logic skills? Thanks in advance.
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Critical thinking is so much more than just logic, although logic is certainly a necessary ingredient. It is also something that you cannot get just out of reading a book, although reading is certainly a necessary ingredient.

You need to find a way to get engaged in life. As suggested, look for resources at your school that exist outside of the classroom. Talk to a counsler about other ways of expanding your education.

What really interests you? Find ways to pursue it both within the school context and in greater life.

Critical thinking skills are something you mostly learn by doing, not by studying.

And, finally, welcome. Yes, this site is an excellent learning aid. Do you read Randi's Swift commentaries?
 
Read read read read read.

And Discuss.

Read not only skeptical books, but books by and about "woo." It'll give you the opportunity to practice your critical thinking skills.

Do you have a goal or are you just putting in time?
 
I have yet to read any commentaries yet I completeley new to all of this so I am pretty excited :)

My main problem is that it feels like everyone around me is in their own world with not a clue as to what's really going on in the world as far as information goes (philosophy, religion, cultures, education, etc.).

I'm not really sure what kind of goal I could set, it seems as though critical thinking is pretty intangible so having a measurable goal might be difficult. I am going to start by reading the suggested books (somewhere in betwen my 15 units :p) and go from there.

Anyone like me when they started? If so what goals did you have?
 
L2B22 said:
My question to you guys: How can I improve my critical thinking skills? Is there any material I can read to improve my logic skills? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...


Get yourself two books, both very easy and fun to read:

The first is Logic and Mr. Limbaugh. Here, a philosophy professor uses excepts from Rush Limbaugh to illustrate how to make a logical argument and how to recognize fallacies when you hear them in normal speach.

Despite the title, this book has no political agenda. Th author never attacks Limbaugh's politics or the truth of any of his conclusions. He only attacks the way Rush puts together arguments. It's a very fun way to learn this stuff without ever once realizing that you're learning.

The second is, and I'm being serious, the Princeton Review or Kaplan LSAT study guide. The LSAT is the test for law school admissions but there is nothing on it about law, history, politics or anything else. Instead, the LSAT uses games, puzzles and reading comprehension to test your logical reasoning skills.

Working through the book and taking the practice tests will help you learn logical thinking in an engaged and interactive way. And it's not even that hard. Trust me: some real idiots make it through law school. I am one of them.

Good luck.
 
L2B22 said:
I am multi-cultural, trilingual, and consider myself to be a person of slightly above average intelligence (115 IQ, nothing special). My whole life I have always felt as if the education system was letting me down; I was never challenged and easily lost interest in my classes even through honors classes in high school. I was bored with my homework and never did it but was able to do decent on exams (A- to B-/C+) considering I was never really paying attention.

As a result I got poor grades, had to go to the JC in my area, and am now at a mediocre college, where once again I am bored, not challenged, and wishing there was something out there for me.

I stumbled across the site and it's exactly what I've been looking for; people who THINK! People who don't just listen to the hows and whats that society feeds us but people who ask WHY. It seems that the education system is failing to teach critical thinking in the classroom, which produces ignorant followers. Now I feel like I am way behind the rest of the world in regards to my critical thinking skills.
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Trilingual! Oh my gosh I'm so jealous!!!

I think you are mistaking education for something that happens to you. The older you get, the more education becomes something that you do for yourself. College is just a tool--a good college may be a Swiss Army Knife, and bad college may be an old steak knife (which, admittedly, sucks), but it's still just a tool.

My parents and I paid my university to teach me some rudimentary skills that I, and my employer, could shape into a career. I also got a piece of paper that I could show to employers to prove that I had undergone that process.

Meanwhile my education happened in the library, on the internet, in the lobby of my dorm, in homework groups, in coffee shops, while out shopping with my girlfriends, while making dinner with my sister, at parties, at movies, etc.

Join a club, any club, as long as it's not so big that you feel lost in the crowd. Ask people at parties how they feel about controversial subjects. Enter debates readily...but always with the end goal of learning something.
 
First goal; learn that no matter what, you're always capable of being wrong. This humility is the core of skepticism and really what it means to be 'open minded'.

Second goal; learn the value of evidence and how to interpret it. People always use some form of evidence to come to a conclusion, yet some things accepted as evidence are misapplied. Viewing the strength of evidence in terms of 'how confident you are that it is being applied correctly' plays a massive role in skepticism.

Third goal; learn how to be accepting. Skepticism is full of folks who get frustrated and egotistical over the fact that they can think critically while the world goes to hell in a handbasket. This does nothing for you than get your blood pressure up. So while you learn how to apply healthy skepticism to things you learn, also learn to apply a little humility and compassion on those who don't see things as you do.

Fourth goal; learn what you can change and, more importantly, what you can't change. You can voice your opinion without having everybody jump to your side. Be a nice person and people will want to accept your views more than if you rant and abuse them. And often there's no changing some people's perceptions. Accept that and try to focus on the possible rather than the impossible.

Hope this helps.

Athon
 
athon said:
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Second goal; learn the value of evidence and how to interpret it. People always use some form of evidence to come to a conclusion, yet some things accepted as evidence are misapplied. Viewing the strength of evidence in terms of 'how confident you are that it is being applied correctly' plays a massive role in skepticism.
...
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L2B22 said:
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I'm not really sure what kind of goal I could set, it seems as though critical thinking is pretty intangible so having a measurable goal might be difficult. I am going to start by reading the suggested books (somewhere in betwen my 15 units :p) and go from there.
Anyone like me when they started? If so what goals did you have?
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Hello L2B22 :)

I would suggest as your very first goal to apply Athon's second goal (is that confusing?) to your courses this fall. Most textbooks are set up in steps; one chapter builds on the next. As you study, remember to ask yourself basic review questions: "what's this say? could I say it simpler?", "where's this formula come from? can I explain it in words?", "does this new info agree with the old info? why or why not?", etc. It's a great way to check what you know, which is at least as important as questioning everyone else.
It might not sound like much now, but in fact it has everything to do with becoming a critical thinker (I think). And as an added bonus, it should get you some decent grades as well. ;)
 
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Welcome L2B22!

I'm going to add another vote for The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan, and The Pleasure of Finding Things Out, by Richard Feynman.

And, if you've got an mp3 player, there are LOTs of great podcasts out there. I live in the states, but by podcasting can listen to lots of great stuff from the BBC and ABC (Australian). There's tons of science, space, skepticism and other cool, rational stuff. There's even a podcast called The Skeptics Toolbox (or something very like) that will introduce some basic concepts.

Enjoy this great new journey!

-A
 
Athon has some great advice there, and I need to check out Loss leader's book recommendation about the LSAT test.

I've sort of been where you have been before. I went to a community college partly because I just didn't care much and was never much motivated. I just took my parent's advice and went to a JC. The future was too difficult to even imagine.

Well this is a great forum don't be intimidated by some of the great writers here. You'll certainly find your place here on the forums. The Demon Haunted World is my book recommendation.

Welcome to the forums!
 
And Skepdic's dictionary has little critical thinking lessons. I don't think you could have stumbled across a better resource with a greater breadth of info. they are eager to share.

The Dawkins link has his videos and randi's videos, and they are a gem. And I liked Thomas Kida's, Don't Believe Everything You Think. Plus I listed a lot of great podcasts in the podcast section... I keep my mp3 player filled as I go about my chores. Long lines have never been so entertaining.
 
L2B22 said:
As a result I got poor grades, had to go to the JC in my area, and am now at a mediocre college, where once again I am bored, not challenged, and wishing there was something out there for me.
Click to expand...

I'm going to go in a different direction than other people here and tell you not to neglect your studies. If you have the ability to carry them out, you will regret it later. What are you studying? There is always more you can do to challenge yourself, even if the classes are not very good.
 
Hi L2B22, I agree with Yllanes - don't neglect your studies.

I've known lots of very intelligent people who felt that the educational environment didn't engage them enough so they switched off and suffered the consequences.

It's a challenge to jump through hoops sometimes but a necessary part of life so learn to make the most of it and achieve as much as you can. Anything else is a bonus.

As for resources, I'd add "The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy", if for nothing more than a laugh and a sense of perspective.
 
You can start practicing critical thinking by examining your own position in an issue. Try to be as detailed as possible when coming up with reasons to support your beliefs. Then examine those reasons.

As for finding JC boring, you can challenge yourself to master this system by getting good marks. You can think of 'how to get marks' as a puzzled to be solved and develop strategies to motivate yourself to work for those marks. This is how I kept myself studying. (Although, I find myself not interested in school more beacuse I find the material too challenging.)
 
OK, I have to put in my 2 cents on media literacy and source checking.

Start with The Media Awareness Site. There are some good summaries, key points and links to other useful sites.

And there is Media Literacy on Wikiversity.

What you end up reading will be the things which interest you. I tend to read a lot about marketing, framing the news with the news media's political bias, and political persuasion. That's because I want to spread things which immunize people from the lies used to manipulate them. I think that is at the heart of the skeptical movement. More importantly, I think the less the masses can be manipulated, the better world we will have.

I also investigate things I read in two ways. First is source checking. And Source Watch is an excellent resource for that.

Some sources like Fox News, Bill O'Reilly and The Discovery Institute are well known for their lack of honesty. So you know to expect falsehoods from their mouths. Other sources might be far right or far left or extreme Libertarian but that just tells you to be wary of what they say, it may or may not be valid but more than likely it is one sided.

The second thing I do is look for additional sources of related information. This is true whether it is a new scientific discovery or a political accusation.

And my final advice, always be open to changing your conclusions. A lot of people here don't believe I am open to changing my views based on new evidence. That's because I base my views on as much evidence as I can to begin with. That means it does take something rather substantial to convince me I'm wrong. But the truth is, if you can't follow the evidence where it leads you, you have lost your critical thinking ability. As a fanatical fact checker, i can say with certainty, I have not lost my ability to go where the evidence leads.
 
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