Plato's Ethics

[eowyn]

As one of my study electives (as part of an MBA), I have just started a short, intensive course on "Leadership and Philosophy". Three weekends to cover Plato, Confucious, Buddha, Kant, Smith and Marx! (focussing on knowledge, ethics and leadership)

We started yesterday with plato's ideas on knowledge and ethics.

I am not clear why Plato put ethics along with mathematics as the only certain knowledge that we could have.

Can anyone help me out?

 

[Cleopatra]

The topic you attempt to discuss is vast, I post some introductory thoughs for you to pick what you need and I can provide further details. Please note that my studies on Plato are related with the Morality of the Aesthetics and not with the topics you are interested in.

The question of what is ethical holds a central role in the Platonic Work. Plato started exploring the question since the period he composed "Gorgias" where he tries to examine where ethics spring from.

Being strongly influenced by the Hippocratic Doctors and the Pythagorean philosophers , Plato defines virtue as order, harmony and balance while order is composed by Justice and Prudency.

Those basic platonic thoughts regarding ethics are introduced in the "Republic" and they are connected ( again) with the trisection of the soul - a vast topic that is not of our interest in the present discussion but I can discuss later if you wish.

Having defined virtue as order, harmony and balance, Plato concludes that virtue is a characteristic of a healthy and beautiful soul. The opposite of virtue is Injustice that divides the soul and creates the inner chaos that he relates to the bad “karma” ( kakodaimonia is the word that Plato uses and that I grossly translate as "bad karma").

To elaborate this idea Plato sketches the profile of the tyrant, a passage that is a classic in the history of ideas and I am expecting that you will discuss in your courses since they are focused in leadership as well.

Now how ethics are related to mathematics?

The order and the harmony of the soul , two identities with which Plato defines virtue find ( according to Plato) their parallel to the order and the harmony of the physical word. In his famous "Timaeus" Plato discusses exactly that; the importance of numbers, symmetry, harmony, order and cosmic balance. In "Timaeus" Plato explores the philosophical image of the nature. For example, he says that the starts are living beings( empsyxa= with a soul) and the perfection of their soul is expressed where ?

In Mathematics of course!

The humans and their soul constitute—according to Plato- a microcosm, the essence of their soul is based on the circular movements that can be described by mathematic equations. Thus the connection with the maths.

 

[Cleopatra]

If you cover those philosophers in terms of leadership, maybe you wish to read this very interesting thread we have had some time ago where you can see how the political and ethical ideas of Plato have been interpreted or used by modern philosophers( Leo Strauss in our case) while I personally believe that none can seriously talk about Plato and Modernity without referring to the philosophy of Isaiah Berlin.

 

[Iacchus]

There's no such thing as right and wrong, right? However, there must be if you consider it in relation to the whole. Are there things which are detrimental to the whole? Yea or nea?

 

[Cleopatra]

Hello Iacchus, nice to meet you again.

There's no such thing as right and wrong, right?

He he, Plato replied to that to " Protagoras" by saying that it's foolish to deny the existence of the one and ultimate truth since the opinion above is presented as the one and ultimate truth. Oxymoron.

However, there must be if you consider it in relation to the whole. Are there things which are detrimental to the whole? Yea or nea?

In order not to confuse our friend eowyn do you want to repost this question in relation to the platonic theories?

 

[Cleopatra]

*Checking if everybody's subscription to threads is a messed up as mine.*

 

[Iacchus]

Hello Iacchus, nice to meet you again.

Hey, I like your outfit.

He he, Plato replied to that to " Protagoras" by saying that it's foolish to deny the existence of the one and ultimate truth since the opinion above is presented as the one and ultimate truth. Oxymoron.

Was this something he actually said?

In order not to confuse our friend eowyn do you want to repost this question in relation to the platonic theories?

Actually I was just guessing here. Am not really up on Plato. Have been told that my ideas resemble Plato's ideals however. Hey, have you checked out my new thread, Universal Design?

*Checking if everybody's subscription to threads is a messed up as mine.*

The problem seems to be fixed now. Albeit I lost a few posts in my post count. I originally replied in order to bump the thread which, of course didn't work. It should work now though ...

 

[Cleopatra]

Was this something he actually said?

In fact it was Socrates who said that in the homonymous dialogue , "Protagoras" after he refuted Protagoras claim that truth is only what we are able to perceive with our senses. As Socrates pointed out frogs have senses too but do they know the truth?

Actually I was just guessing here. Am not really up on Plato. Have been told that my ideas resemble Plato's ideals however.

It's hard to be an idealist without resembling to Plato since very few after him resisted to his charm.

Sometimes I cannot help thinking though what Plato would say if he knew what we know about the function of human brain.

I make the same weird thoughs when I read Thucydetes ( I was reading the Pathology of War for the nth time last night before falling asleep). Can you imagine what Thucydetes would have written if he had an Internet access?

Hey, have you checked out my new thread, Universal Design?

I have but my problem is that you approach thing vaguely while in my book philosophy is something very specific.

BTW in a greek discussion list I proposed your book ( Dionysus Advent) as a better and more interesting alternative to James Joyce's bubbles.