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Planet Saved! CO2 be Gone.

A better bet would be growing forests, burning them into charcoal (which generates a fair amount of power in and of itself,) then dumping the charcoal into an empty coal mine. It would be cheaper, more reliable, and would require relatively little maintenance. It's still not going to be worth doing, of course, but it's better than this hare brained scheme.

It's certainly not worth doing as it amount to a 3 step process:
1) dig the carbon out of the ground and pump it into the atmosphere in the form of CO2
2) extract the from the atmosphere and turn it back into carbon
3) bury the carbon back in the ground where it came from but in a higher energy form than the coal that it being dug up and burnt.

how can this be better than burning the charcoal and leaving the coal ground?
 
how can this be better than burning the charcoal and leaving the coal ground?

Who on Earth said it would be? If we wanted to get closer to the pre-industrial CO2 levels in the atmosphere we'd have to find a place to put all of the carbon that was sequestered. A reasonable place to start would be in the coal mines that already exist... This wouldn't work so well with a strip mine, of course, but there are plenty of shaft mines in the world.
 
No. The place to put it is in the soil.

I understand that that might be a better place to put it, but that wasn't what I was responding to. Lomiller was saying that I had originally suggested that we dig up coal and then make charcoal to fill the holes. I never said anything about digging new coal, and wanted to point out that there already exist some convenient holes to plant the carbon, were it to be made.
 
Lomiller was saying that I had originally suggested that we dig up coal and then make charcoal to fill the holes.

I was agreeing with your comment that it wasn't worth doing, and expanding on why not. I was not under the impression you were proposing it as a solution to CO2.
 
No. The place to put it is in the soil.

Carbon in the soil is still in play on a century+ timescale. The primary “permanent” way CO2 is sequestered is carbonate rock forming in the deep ocean, but this process takes in excess of 100K years to bring CO2 levels back to normal. Carbon sequestered in the soil and ocean will still exchange with the atmosphere leading to a prolonged (100K year +) period of elevated CO2.
 
Carbon in the soil is still in play on a century+ timescale. The primary “permanent” way CO2 is sequestered is carbonate rock forming in the deep ocean, but this process takes in excess of 100K years to bring CO2 levels back to normal. Carbon sequestered in the soil and ocean will still exchange with the atmosphere leading to a prolonged (100K year +) period of elevated CO2.

Evidently, chunks of bio-char are fairly inert in the soil. I have found it on my own land, from several thousand years ago. It wasn't intentional, rather old fire pits from way back. But the charred wood is intact. In the deep ocean, its hard to imagine much interaction is going on with the atmosphere.

One thing I'm curious about is the role of mollusks in sequestering atmospheric CO2. Encouraging limestone formation (Ca(CO3)2 mostly, is a decent repository for carbon. Zebra mussels could be our friends.

The other, more obvious route would be to allow/encourage tree growth on pasture land that presently feeds cattle, as well as farm land that grows animal feed. A major shift toward a vegetarian diet would sequester more carbon than anything else I can think of; unlikely as that is.
 
The other, more obvious route would be to allow/encourage tree growth on pasture land that presently feeds cattle, as well as farm land that grows animal feed. A major shift toward a vegetarian diet would sequester more carbon than anything else I can think of; unlikely as that is.

I like this, but I wonder about other nutrients plants need. Do we return those to the soil when we put charcoal back, or do we lose some when we make the charcoal? You wouldn't want to pump up fertilizer need during the process.

Are there other good uses for carbon that would help? Roadbeds? Construction materials? Media for hydroponics that, when clogged gets buried?
 
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I like this, but I wonder about other nutrients plants need. Do we return those to the soil when we put charcoal back, or do we lose some when we make the charcoal? You wouldn't want to pump up fertilizer need during the process.

Are there other good uses for carbon that would help? Roadbeds? Construction materials? Media for hydroponics that, when clogged gets buried?

Shamefully, I'm confused by your question.
Any chance of re-phrasing it?

In much of the farm land devoted to growing animal feed (I.e., most of it) trees will happen through benign neglect. Simply ceasing the energy inputs (farming) will bring on the sequestering of carbon.

The problem is, how addicted are we to meat? Clearly, it is not required, and most authorities on the western diet and its problems suggest lower consumption of meat.
The hungrier half of the world is moving more aand more toward animal protein, which indeed, gives them and their babies a better chance for health.
However, the privledged western nations have since figured out a diet that would keep the poor healthy without needing to get into heavy meat consumption, with its related destruction of forested lands, and hard demands for water and energy.

Of course, their are wide swaths of land that aren't fit to grow trees or crops.
Wild herbivores do well in such marginal areas, in which case, hunting is appropriate.
 
Maybe my question is based on a false assumption about carbon flow, but here's what a gathered the idea was.

1) grow stuff
2) change that stuff into inert (more or less) carbon that came from the atmosphere in step 1
3) Put that carbon back into the soil where you were growing stuff
4) repeat

Now, step one requires more than atmospheric carbon. Plants need other nutrients to grow. Water I assume cycles OK, but my question is whether or not the other nutrients are depleted so that step one will require input of fertilizer. This is as opposed to a closed system where you let plants rot and compost, recycling everything.

Since we burned the stuff from step one to make the charcoal, did we also lose the nutrients that stuff contained? Or, are those still in the charcoal and returned to the soil as well?

What I'm trying to avoid is having to add fertilizers, which I gather add costs and steal energy and might make the whole thing unworkable. (Assuming the fertilizer part of the cycle would require more fossil fuel to generate the energy to make the fertilizer.)
 
If I understand the question, yes...to grow a crop for the purpose of making bio-char would be fairly crazy, imho, energy-wise.

Whereas, to allow cropland to revert to forest would require no energy input. Quite the opposite, actually. To allow a forest to grow will sequester carbon from the atmosphere.
When a tree falls, that would be the time to use some of its fuel potential, and sequester some of it in bio-char.

A tree rotting in a forest will be closer to carbon neutral than a sequesterer of carbon.
 
One thing I'm curious about is the role of mollusks in sequestering atmospheric CO2. Encouraging limestone formation (Ca(CO3)2 mostly, is a decent repository for carbon. Zebra mussels could be our friends.

I've thought about this for oyster/mussel farmers as well. The primary difficulty that I can see is that the process of putting carbon from elemental or hydrocarbon sources into the atmosphere then removing it via carbonate minerals is that it also ties up huge quantities of calcium from the ocean and causes them to become more acidic. The amount of carbon dioxide that has been put into the ocean already has tinkered with its pH, and doing this on a scale that would be meaningful to atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide would do much more. It's going to happen anyway, but perhaps over the longer term there will be time for crustaceans and carbonate shelled creatures to adapt.
 
I like this, but I wonder about other nutrients plants need. Do we return those to the soil when we put charcoal back, or do we lose some when we make the charcoal? You wouldn't want to pump up fertilizer need during the process.

Are there other good uses for carbon that would help? Roadbeds? Construction materials? Media for hydroponics that, when clogged gets buried?

The carbon we're returning to the soil came from the air. With the right crops (legumes, clover, and other nitrogen fixing crops) the nitrogen they need can come from the air too. Most of that nitrogen and some of that carbon are going back into the atmosphere when you make the biochar. All of the minerals are staying in the biochar, and the nitrogen from the parts you don't harvest, the parts left in the soil such as roots, stems, leaves etc. gets plowed back under where bacteria break it down into its component nutrients and the biochar helps keep it from leaching away. The overall effect is not only to lock a lot of carbon up in the soil but also to lock up and conserve a lot of nutrients.

Charcoal was used in the 18th century for roadbeds, but I don't know if it was very successful. It was probably better than just dirt, and easier on horse's hooves than cobblestones, but that doesn't say anything about its resistance to tire wear. It does make an excellent filter medium, but depending on what you're filtering you might not want to then use it as a soil amendment.
 

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