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Plane Crashes Into NYC Building

Hi, pilot experience and for your consideration.

Dumb luck. There I was, standing in McDonalds saw CNN, took a seat and watched.

CNN has some facts already wrong. I counted 10-16 floors above crash area, which was a three floor zone as best I could tell from the monitor. The "20th floor of 50 story building" is incorrect, as crash was 10-16 floors low. Hard to due to the building being a beveled, ziggurat type top that allows for a few more floors of garden apartments . . . Also, not able to see where building meets ground from the camera angles. Report was he took off from Teterboro.

Looking down the East River from the TV view, weather not a factor. Ceiling looked to be at least 1000 feet. This is important, as pilot was (reported) not on an instrument flight plan. You need 1000/3 for VFR. The East River has a VFR corridor (I have flown it, late 90's). Wish I had the Terminal Area Chart to show you where I am talking about.

Typically, you have to stay below 800', or at 500' on that corridor to avoid conflicting with La Guardia traffic. To enter the corridor, I recall the need for a squawk (IFF code) from New York Approach, details fuzzy in my memory, then switch to the VFR advisory freq to deconflict "see and avoid" with othe VFR traffic in the corridor.

An eye witness who was (reported) a private pilot (CNN called him an amateur pilot in usual disregard for facts) had just got on the phone and described what he saw as he went over a bridge. (Guessing bridge that crosses the East River at about 52d street. Name escapes me: Tri Borough? ) He said the plane was maneuvering eratically just before impact. From where he sat, plane went behind a/the (didn't understand the words) building and then the smoke/explosion blossom came out.

Marvell Scott, (name familiar, once a baseball or basketball player?) was interviewed a few minutes later. He is now a WABC sports anchor in New York. He saw the plane briefly from the building he was in, which is across the street from the crashed into building. Hyperbole aside, his observations included nose high pitch, apparent avoidance of his building, and a loud crash, which Marvell scurried across to go and see. (Having digested all this, he went to find a news crew, as best I can fathom.) His description was lucid, compared to some witness reports.

CNN claims tower was not in touch with plane. No matter, they would not have been. IIRC, 72d street is well outside (north of) the five mile circle from La Guardia, so he'd have been on the VFR deconfliction frequency. Forget the VHF numbers. (110. something, IIRC, but that might have been the Hudson River VFR freq) "See and avoid" is pilot resonsibility in most VFR corridors, and you usually call on the freq when you enter the corridor to let pilots slower, faster, or coming the other way know that they need to look for you. No idea what rules have changed in the Manhattan area since 9-11.

I see five scenarios, some of which have been proposed by posters above.

1. Heart Attack, or other medical malfunction, erratic control, impact. Likely. Young guys (juiced perhaps?) not immune to heart attack.

2. Engine failure, frantic "aw crap" reaponse as he loses lift/energy and fails to find a place to land. Possible attempts to get to Central Park to land, crash building is West of the River, and the corridor, as is Central Park. However, that scenario would argue for a glancing blow on a building as he tries to glide down 72 street in an attempt to find the Park. (Low odds)

With the river right there to ditch into, not betting the odds on above scenario. Not everyone would do as I would have done and ditched in the river under an engine failure in that situation, since not all persons have benefit of dunker training, etc. )

Also likely, still puzzled as pilot's decisions.

3. Control malfunction. Jammed control or snapped control cable for elevator of aileron. Low odds, though the eratic maneuvering may point to that.

4. The lover/revenge/suicide deal. Funny that others came up with that, Hollywood has corrupted us all! :D

5. Deliberate attack for reasons that vary: very low odds.

6. The Neo Cons, of course! :p They were delivering 4' rods with 3" centers . . . by plane . . . yeah, that's the ticket!

NORAD of course has launched fighters. This incident allows them to see if their procedures and response times are within the zone desired.

Note: NORAD were not able to order a pre emptive launch, only a reaction.

All I have to offer as of this moment.

ETA: That VFR corridor goes past Yankee Stadium. Weird thought about Lidle: one last look at the stadium before he ends it all? I sincerely hope not. Ouch.

DR
 
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It seems like things just get more and more bizarre. You couldn't make this stuff up. I'm really sorry this happened to him and the others who were killed. And even as a Red Sox fan, I wish that the Yankees had beaten Detroit so maybe this wouldn't have happened. (On the other hand, if it had been the Evil Emperor Steinbrenner... well, a Red Sox fan can only go so far.)
 
CNN reporting that the FBI is saying the pitcher guy was the only person in the plane.
 
when he played for the phils the brass was always trying to get him to stop flying, to which he replied he'd rather fly than pitch.
 
Hopefully, somebody got in touch with this guy's loved ones before they found out he's dead on TV...
 
slingblade said:
You should see the Loose Change forum.

At this point, if the building collapses, it will be from controlled demolition, just like 9/11, and will be used to shore up the lie about WTC7 collapsing from damage, when we all know it was deliberately destroyed.

If the building doesn't collapse, it is proof that buildings don't fall down when planes hit them.

Lose/lose Loosers.
Click to expand...

Naaah, it's gotta be a tactical nuke. Carried by the helicopter several people said they saw. The plane is just a plant. I am clearly talking out of my rectum. Oh wati!, I'm a Cter so I always talk out of my rectum. Aaaaaaaaaaaaagh! Huh? What! Man what a nightmare that was!

"Submitted for your approval from a random guy who just happens to be wearing a black suit and dark sunglasses."
 
All the Mayor said was that the plane took off from Teeterboro Airport andf was on radar, was seen circling the Statute of Liberty, sightseeing obviously,
and then proceeded up the East River and was lost on radar at about the 59th Street Bridge. It may have fallen below radar altitude at that point so there is no radar record of it left turning over into the city at E 72nd Street.

The mayor also said two people were on board, the student pilot and his instructor. He said the pilot had 75 hours. He would not identify either of them
in spite of the fact the press already said Corey Lidle was on board and probably flying it.

When asked about the safety of the airpsace over Manhattan the mayor said small planes and choppers are allowed and said this was per FAA regulations.

(This policy may have to be revisited?)
 
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SteveGrenard said:
All the Mayor said was that the plane took off from Teeterboro Airport andf was on radar, was seen circling the Statute of Liberty, sightseeing obviously,
and then proceeded up the East River and was lost on radar at about the 59th Street Bridge. It may have fallen below radar altitude at that point so there is no radar record of it turning over into the city at E 72nd Street.

The mayor also said two people were on board, the student pilot and his instructor. He said the pilot had 75 hours. He would not identify either of them
in spite of the fact the press already said Corey Lidle was on board and probably flying it.

When asked about the safety of the airpsace over Manhattan the mayor said small planes and choppers are allowed and said this was per FAA regulations.

(This policy may have to be revisited?)
Click to expand...
1. No reason to revisit policy. The VFR corridors work. They have been working for decades, and with nearly no accidents. It is trivially easy to avoid hitting a building while flying the VFR corridor.
2. Since the aircraft is below the height of the buildings, it would have been in what is called ground clutter.
3. 75 hours is a low time pilot. If he had a malfunciton, odds of him being behind the aircraft (mentally) are high, and a whole host of scenarios open up as possible causes.

DR
 
Because it was a joy ride in the middle of the afternoon involving a sportsman whose season was ended and was effectively unemployed until next Spring. Many people travel North at this time to see the foliage.

The idea that leisure and alcohol might be related isn't an extraordinary claim. But it's pure speculation on my part.
 
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