Plane Crash In DC

Andy_Ross said:
It's OK, the Magat talking heads have found the cause, the pilot was a woman with 500 hours of flying experience, barely enough to be trusted with a Cessna.
Even worse, she may have been transgender.

This is being posted as evidence that she was the cause

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This wasn't mishandling of the helicopter. It flew exactly as intended. It was misidentification of the aircraft they were to lookout for. There was another make pilot and a crew member to help.
 
smartcooky said:
Another update from Juan Browne


He introduces the possibility that the UH60 pilot identified the wrong aircraft for deconfliction (an American Airlines 3130 that was behind JIA 5342) and he probably never saw the aircraft he collided with which would have been hidden among the glare of the city lights.
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Not just city lights, it could have been a case of not seeing the plane in their peripheral vision. Night light goggles and normal night vision, flattens depth of field and ability to distinguish colours. So the oncoming plane may have been perceived as a flat aspect of landscape in the peripheral vision until it was all too late.
 
jt512 said:
The helicopter was at 400 feet, 200 feet over the maximum permitted altitude for the route he was following. Had he been at or below 200 feet, as required, he would not have hit the other aircraft even if he never saw it.
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I need to correct this statement. Looking at the legend of the helicopter chart for the D.C. area, the altitudes along the route are listed as recommended maximums, so apparently the helicopter pilot has no legal duty to abide by them.
 
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a_unique_person said:
What sort of fight path in a busy central city location is 200 ft right across a landing path for jets. That's about 30 metres.
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The ability to fly low and slow and maneuver around obstacles is kinda' the whole point of helicopters.
 
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This helicopter route is, if I gather correctly, a ferry service for Washington VIPs, day or night, ducking under a commercial glide path where the passenger planes might be around 400ft. I can't help thinking this disaster is likely to change the opinions of those who use the service.

It's almost as if it's treated like one of those footpaths which happen to cross the fairway of a golf course, and signs warn you to keep a lookout. Except sometimes in the dark, and with hundreds of lives at stake.
 
jt512 said:
The ability to fly low and slow and maneuver around obstacles is kinda' the whole point of helicopters.
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Military ops, they have to take risks. Civilian ops, the aim is to minimise risk. That means multiple layers of redundancy to mitigate mistakes like the one that the helicopter crew made. There have been similar near misses so it was just a matter of time.
 
smartcooky said:
Another update from Juan Browne


He introduces the possibility that the UH60 pilot identified the wrong aircraft for deconfliction (an American Airlines 3130 that was behind JIA 5342) and he probably never saw the aircraft he collided with which would have been hidden among the glare of the city lights.
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I think that idea was already brought up by MetaBunk…

Shrinker said:
As you might expect, Mick West at Metabunk has some clues and a good theory. (Helicopter pilot was looking at and avoiding the wrong plane)


In contrast, President Palpatine hasn't got one clue but still finds some soothing words of blame.
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JayUtah said:
That always occurs. As neutrally as we try to represent the facts and to draw conclusions, there will always be political elements that use those findings to support their agenda. Investigators can't let that discourage them. We have a job to do regardless of how others misbehave.


That's what I fear most. Nobody can control what unscrupulous people do with the things you produce. But if unscrupulous people are meddling in the process to get you to produce something that's dishonest, that's an entirely different animal. There are enough people who understand the concept of political spin that you can confidently speak the truth and trust people to recognize the subsequent spin and be able to distinguish between them. But if the NTSB is simply directed to find that DEI is the cause, and if it is populated with new people who will happily obey that direction, then the distinction is harder. If the finding in print contains the spin, you can't see it as easily.


They're afraid of reprisals. It's not that they like Trump; they fear him. The Trump has already announced investigations targeted at NPR and PBS. This is straight up strongman dictator stuff.
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The owners of media absutely love Trampy, he is one of their very own.
 
By the way, regarding privatization of air traffic controllers, let's see how that working out at one airport:

San Carlos Airport could lose air traffic controllers amid pay dispute

The San Carlos Airport (SQL) in San Mateo County will no longer have air traffic controllers starting in February following a dispute over pay, officials said.

Airport manager Gretchen Kelly announced Wednesday that the air traffic controllers' last day at the airport will be on Friday. The airport is one of the few in the Bay Area that contracts with an outside company to supply air traffic controllers.

Starting Saturday, the tower will be unstaffed, a condition known to aviators as "ATC Zero."

The airport said the FAA had awarded a new contract for air traffic services to Robinson Aviation (RVA), but the contract had not included locality pay to account for the Bay Area's high cost of living. Air traffic controllers at San Carlos had been under contract from Serco, a private company that provides air traffic control to about 60 U.S. airports.

"They've been in negotiations with RVA to try and work out a deal," airport spokesperson Davi Howard said

"As a result, RVA's employment offers to current SQL controllers were significantly lower than their current compensation under SERCO. Understandably, all current controllers have declined RVA's offers," Kelly said.
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:jaw-dropp
 
a_unique_person said:
Military ops, they have to take risks. Civilian ops, the aim is to minimise risk. That means multiple layers of redundancy to mitigate mistakes like the one that the helicopter crew made. There have been similar near misses so it was just a matter of time.
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I'm not a helicopter pilot, so I can't speak authoritatively, but the helicopter route that the helicopter was on follows the Potomac River at 200 ft MSL with 400-500–foot obstacles on either side. The route is a published civilian helicopter route. As a (fixed-wing) airplane pilot, I have considerable experience flying into and out of airports in the vicinity of helicopter operations. There is nothing inherently incompatible between fixed-wing landings and take-offs and helicopter operations in the same area. It seems to me, therefore, that there is nothing outrageously unusual about this type of civilian helicopter operation despite the proximity to obstacles and the Reagan airport.

Once the investigation is concluded, it wouldn't surprise me if some modifications to operations in this airspace were made, perhaps, for example, making the 200-ft ceiling mandatory instead of recommended or prohibiting visual separation at night. But I doubt that there will be, or should be, any major change to overall helicopter operations in the area.
 
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The helicopter that crashed had a crew of three. The pilot's name has already been released. The other two were a man and a woman. Hegseth, an alcoholic, is now the head of the defense forces. Next, Trump will order women out of all possible aviation jobs. They will be allowed to travel to different bases in planes. Maybe they will even be allowed to maintain aircraft. That helicopter took off from an army base on the outskirts of the capital. Davidson, Virginia.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
This helicopter route is, if I gather correctly, a ferry service for Washington VIPs, day or night, ducking under a commercial glide path where the passenger planes might be around 400ft. I can't help thinking this disaster is likely to change the opinions of those who use the service.

It's almost as if it's treated like one of those footpaths which happen to cross the fairway of a golf course, and signs warn you to keep a lookout. Except sometimes in the dark, and with hundreds of lives at stake.
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Yeah they'll mandate that commercial flights will need to take a much more difficult landing approach so as to not inconvenience them.
 
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