Badly Shaved Monkey
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
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ThirdTwin said:
Short answer- don't know.
Placebo effect in pets
- Thread starter thaiboxerken
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- placebo effect
Short answer- don't know.
We had a dog from puppyhood to age 16 (a German Shepherd X of some sort) who, whenever we took her to the vet over the years, would just shake like a leaf when put on the table & continuing through the exam/treatment. (Except for needing a few stitches once more than halfway through her doggy career, nothing "bad" ever happened to her at the pet vets.)
We changed vets a few times & went to different locations, but she always, always had the same reaction. We've had (& have) other dogs, but none reacted even remotely like this in the same situation.
We changed vets a few times & went to different locations, but she always, always had the same reaction. We've had (& have) other dogs, but none reacted even remotely like this in the same situation.
exarch
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
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To quote Jerry McGuire (no not "show me the money"
):Did you know dogs and wasps can smell fear?
Well, I'm not entirely sure about the truth behind that statement, but I do know that dogs can at least pick up when someone is afraid, or nervous. I would expect them to be even better at that with someone they know very well, like their owner. My thought is that much of what is perceived as "placebo effect" in dogs is in fact the owner's nerves being calmed, and the dog calming down as a result.
So pets may not necessarily *know* they are getting medicine, they do know that their owners are pampering them when they feel bad, and feel anxious (or conversely more relaxed) during or after they go to that place with the weird smell and the shiny metal table.
Placebo Effect is an observation. When it is observed, we announce there is a placebo effect happening. When it isn't observe, then it is not observed.
A placebo effect should not happen reliably, and not with every person. If it does happen reliably, then the particular "Pill" used for the experiment will be validated as a new form of effective drug.
You are seeking a report validating Placebo Effect in animals.
Even if you have found a validating report, it would be limited for a particular animal, for a particular illness or disease, and with a particular drug, or therapy. Very limited as useful proof. Except that Placebo Effect do happen when it happens.
Sometime I find that people talked about placebo effect as if it a new and real drug or an established medical treatment. And that it really works. This should be avoided. It doesn't work reliably. It shouldn't work reliably.
A placebo effect should not happen reliably, and not with every person. If it does happen reliably, then the particular "Pill" used for the experiment will be validated as a new form of effective drug.
You are seeking a report validating Placebo Effect in animals.
Even if you have found a validating report, it would be limited for a particular animal, for a particular illness or disease, and with a particular drug, or therapy. Very limited as useful proof. Except that Placebo Effect do happen when it happens.
Sometime I find that people talked about placebo effect as if it a new and real drug or an established medical treatment. And that it really works. This should be avoided. It doesn't work reliably. It shouldn't work reliably.
Jyera said:
This is precisely why I think it more appropot to call it the Hawthorne effect. In the Hawthorne plant studies, no matter what variable they changed the workers were more productive. Turn up the lights, AHA! The workers were more productive. Therefore, bright lights = more productive workers. Turn down the lights, AHA! The workers were more productive. Therefore, dim lights = more productive workers.
They failed, at first, to realize that the simple act of intervening and studying the workers, regardless of variable, caused the improvement due to greater emphasis being placed on the worker - in essence, they responded simply to the attention they were being given (which, I don't think it THAT unreasonable, could also happen in animals). Clearly, there is a huge dose of observer bias going on here as well.
I often think the Hawthorne effect is at play in many diseases that are studied, and it can be not only confused with a "placebo effect" but may actually overemphasize the real effect of an active medicine beyond what it actually does. The mere act of studying a population changes the charateristics of the population being studied.
-TT
ThirdTwin said:
I have heard a physics version of the same principle being described as the zero-th law of thermodynamics.
Just a way to try and get students to remember than whenever they measure something they, almost always, affect the very thing they measuring by the act of measurement.
Eg; shoving cold thermometer bulb in a fluid will not only cause a slight drop from the original temperature, but also slightly alter the thermal properties of that fluid.
It is usually a negligible effect, sometimes it is significant, but it should always be considered and factored for.
Lothian
should be banned
My cat has definitely demonstrated the placebo effect.
Although he is a Tom he is a nancy boy and scared of girls. He is narcoleptic due to a Haemoglobin deficiency, and has special needs. I changed his diet to special K and beef,. He became a right burger queen ! He went from being passive aggressive to show spite and malice. I sent him for a transfusion with black market blood. Now he has come home he has teenage angst, he would swallow, plasticine think he was bionic, a brick (censored)house., but he still has his taste for men.
link
Although he is a Tom he is a nancy boy and scared of girls. He is narcoleptic due to a Haemoglobin deficiency, and has special needs. I changed his diet to special K and beef,. He became a right burger queen ! He went from being passive aggressive to show spite and malice. I sent him for a transfusion with black market blood. Now he has come home he has teenage angst, he would swallow, plasticine think he was bionic, a brick (censored)house., but he still has his taste for men.
link