Pink Slime

[Furcifer]

Explaining in your case is just making unsupported assertions. You can call it something else, but it changes nothing and nothing really is all you got.

Well I could teach you how to butcher a cow. Here's a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MRuCLXxqjs&feature=related

All of the stuff he throws is going into a bone bucket. There's plenty of "good meat" on those bones but typically it goes to dog food. At 59 seconds he's deboned and removed the leg. It takes him 12 minutes to process the entire cow, it would take you 5 just to remove the bit of flesh from that bone and you'd get maybe a few ounces. There's more on the blade and on the shoulder bone, all good meat that goes to dog food because it's more feasible to butcher 600 pounds in 15 minutes rather than a few ounces in 5.

I bet most people couldn't recognize a "cut of meat" from the pile he's got after he says done. Most of that white is connective tissue, not fat. Once he starts to trim all of that goes into the trim bucket and gets ground. Some of the trim is all white and connective tissue and some is all meat.

What do you think I'm asserting here?

 

[Furcifer]

So how many cuts of meat are going to give you 40% connective tissue if ground chuck gives you 30%?

None, as I said it's trim.

 

[Furcifer]

Where is an analysis of any cut of meat ground into burger without LBT that has anywhere close to the composition of hamburger with 15% LBT in it?

You just don't seem to get that ground beef is a mixture of "cuts of meat" and "trim". The "T" in LBT is "trimmings", LBT is like "trim" not like CUTS OF MEAT.

I yield.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I get it Fur, you got nothing except an assertion that hamburger is so sloppily made that lots of batches are going to have 40% connective tissue in them. 40%, as in almost half that isn't actually meat. I see no reason to believe that hamburger frequently fluctuates from 30 to 40% connective tissue based just on your assertion.

 

[Furcifer]

I get it Fur, you got nothing except an assertion that hamburger is so sloppily made that lots of batches are going to have 40% connective tissue in them. 40%, as in almost half that isn't actually meat. I see no reason to believe that hamburger frequently fluctuates from 30 to 40% connective tissue based just on your assertion.

Nope, just the trim.

eta: that's not an assertion, it's a very obvious fact.

 

[Furcifer]

It just dawned on me that you may be being deliberately obtuse. You've been complaining about the use of "lean beef trimmings" because you think it somehow means "lean cuts of beef". Your whole failed argument relies on this and now that you've been shown the very obvious difference between a "cut" and "trim" you're just refusing to accept it. I'm not "asserting" the difference between a "cut" and "trim", it's known to anyone familiar with meat or willing to learn.

I suggest you go ask a butcher for some beef trimmings and see what you get. It's not a cut of meat, not by a long shot. It's scrap.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It's a fact hamburger with LBT is likely the cause of the bad texture I've found in the past several years.

Why is your assertion any more believable? Because you claim hamburger is often made with only 60% meat in it?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I see the problem. You are assuming LBT actually is no different from "trim".

Just because they call it lean beef trimmings does not make it the same as the 'trim' you are referring to.

You have no analysis, no evidence.

 

[rustypouch]

Keep going. This is fun to watch.

 

[Furcifer]

Just because they call it lean beef trimmings does not make it the same as the 'trim' you are referring to.

It's not really, it's the trim left over from the trim I'm referring to.

Analogy time.
A man walks into a barber shop with a long beard and says to the barber- "Can you trim my beard?"
and the barber says-
"Certainly"
So the barber "trims" his beard with a pair of scissors.
There's a big pile of beard trimmings on the floor and the guy looks in the mirror and says-
"You know what, I want a shave instead"
and the barber says-
"Certainly"
So the barber lathers the man up and shaves his face with a straight razor.
There's a big pile of beard trimmings in the sink now
Just then the man's wife bursts in, looks at the floor and looks at the sink and says-
"Those are trimmings on the floor, but those are shavings in the sink, they're not the same thing."
And that's when the man and the barber look at each other kinda funny

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Still no analysis, just assertion.

 

[Furcifer]

Still no analysis, just assertion.

The irony. The USDA "analyzed" the product and determined it to be "trimmings". See: Lean Beef Trimmings, it's right there in the name.

You are the one "asserting" otherwise.

The fact that you don't like how they process the trim in LBT is really irrelevant. It's still trim (see analogy below for clarification). Trim has always been added to ground beef.

 

[Belz...]

It's even more unskeptical to stereotype all humans.

Special pleading.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

It's a fact hamburger with LBT is likely the cause of the bad texture I've found in the past several years.

Saying it's ''likely'' doesn't make up for using the word "fact" where it doesn't belong. It might be the cause, it might not be, you have no evidence either way.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The irony. The USDA "analyzed" the product and determined it to be "trimmings". See: Lean Beef Trimmings, it's right there in the name.

You are the one "asserting" otherwise.

The fact that you don't like how they process the trim in LBT is really irrelevant. It's still trim (see analogy below for clarification). Trim has always been added to ground beef.

Round and around, the USDA regulator also got 1.2 million dollars for a do nothing job sitting on the board of Tyco Foods (the biggest customer of Beef Products Inc) just after the change in labeling rules. Forgive me if I don't think the labeling rules mean LBT isn't really 70% connective tissue or that any cut of meat ground into hamburger is.


But you go ahead, repeat your arguments for another 10 pages.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Special pleading.

Recognizing when someone is inappropriately lumping all of humanity into a single category other than human is not called special pleading, Belz.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Saying it's ''likely'' doesn't make up for using the word "fact" where it doesn't belong. It might be the cause, it might not be, you have no evidence either way.

Look up the definition of hypothesis, Silly. Maybe that will help you with this straw man.

 

[Furcifer]

. Forgive me if I don't think the labeling rules mean LBT isn't really 70% connective tissue or that any cut of meat ground into hamburger is.

Maybe I forgot to mention we're not talking about "cuts of meat" we're talking about trim?

Oh yah I did

The fact that you don't know what a cut of meat by this point in the argument speaks volumes to your obvious bias. You're not objective, you're just out to prove yourself and your own convoluted ideas true.

You're comparing cuts of meat to trim instead of lean beef trimmings to trim, you're wrong.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Maybe I forgot to mention we're not talking about "cuts of meat" we're talking about trim?

Oh yah I did

The fact that you don't know what a cut of meat by this point in the argument speaks volumes to your obvious bias. You're not objective, you're just out to prove yourself and your own convoluted ideas true.

You're comparing cuts of meat to trim instead of lean beef trimmings to trim, you're wrong.

I can read, Fur. You still have an assertion and no evidence.

It LBT was indeed the same as the rest of the 'trim', why does it require special treatment? Why not just grind the stuff up, add the ammonia which does not change globular protein into fibrous protein and add it to the hamburger?

And if ground chuck hamburger has 30% 'trim' as you seem to be implying (if the ground chuck had 30% connective tissue and ignoring for the moment any connective tissue within the meat itself) then why not produce an analysis showing some ground beef has 40% connective tissue in it. Show us a citation that notes the variability of connective tissue proportions in hamburger.

 

[Ryokan]

It LBT was indeed the same as the rest of the 'trim', why does it require special treatment? Why not just grind the stuff up, add the ammonia which does not change globular protein into fibrous protein and add it to the hamburger?

Because the process that gets it off the bones heats the meat up. Surely you knew this?