"Pilots for Truth" using its mailing list to trash opponents

[1337m4n]

For reasons I don't remember, I'm on P4T's mailing list. I just got this message:

Boston Air Traffic Controller/Military Liaison - Dodges, Evades, Ignores Pertinent Questions

07/05/2011 - (PilotsFor911Truth.org) Mr. Colin Scoggins, a Boston Air Traffic Controller who worked the military liaison desk at Boston Air Route Traffic Control Center on the morning of September 11, 2001, is also a member of the Pilots For 9/11 Truth forum since August 2007 known under the nick-name "Cheap Shot". Co-Founder of Pilots For 9/11 Truth Rob Balsamo recently released a scene to the public from the Pilots For 9/11 Truth latest presentation entitled 9/11: INTERCEPTED. Despite being a registered Forum member since August 2007, Mr. Scoggins finally elected to engage discussion at the Pilots For 911 Truth forum with respect to the information analyzed. After being asked relevant and pertinent questions with all due respect, Mr. Scoggins dodged, evaded and ignored. The few questions Mr. Scoggins elected to answer, his answers were proven to be inaccurate using Scoggins' own words recorded and provided through the Freedom Of Information Act.

Click here for full article and discussion.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21483

Let me quote one particularly interesting line...

Mr. Scoggins has claimed early in the above linked dialogue that he will retreat from the discussion if disrespected.

Mr. Balsamo, most sane individuals consider the act of using a mass mailing list to laugh at an opponent behind his back to be a "disrespectful" act.

The discussion in question features Scoggins, apparently a 9/11 eyewitness, so the comments may be of interest to folks here: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21411&st=0&p=10799127&#entry10799127

 

[The Big Dog]

For reasons I don't remember, I'm on P4T's mailing list. I just got this message:



Let me quote one particularly interesting line...



Mr. Balsamo, most sane individuals consider the act of using a mass mailing list to laugh at an opponent behind his back to be a "disrespectful" act.

The discussion in question features Scoggins, apparently a 9/11 eyewitness, so the comments may be of interest to folks here: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21411&st=0&p=10799127&#entry10799127

FYI. he is a member here.

Goes by the name of "Cheap shot" here too.

Nice guy.

 

[BCR]

This is low, even for CPt'n Bob. Cheap Shot took the time to talk to them (for what reason I can't fathom) in an attempt to help and they give him the CIT Lloyde England treatment

 

[triforcharity]

Actually, tis doesn't suprise me, BECAUSE of the way they treated Mr. England.

Scumbags, the whole lot of 'em.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

The discussion in question features Scoggins, apparently a 9/11 eyewitness, so the comments may be of interest to folks here: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21411&st=0&p=10799127&#entry10799127

Apparently a 9/11 eyewitness?? I thought you'd been in threads here with him before; he was on the front line of the ATC/NEADS response in Boston Center. He's considerably more than an eyewitness; Ref here interviewed him and posted it.

Or was than an ironic quote and I missed it? If so, I'm so sorry.

 

[Reheat]

What a SCUMBAG!

I don't blame Colin for leaving that cesspool!

Balsamo is WRONG....again. Colin's position report had absolutely nothing to do with the F-15's (Panta) going into holding off Long Island. New York Center didn't want them over NYC, probably due to traffic. There was a discussion about that on one of the NEADS tapes.

Additionally, Colins' position report had absolutely nothing to do with why the Langley Fighters went 090 for 60 nm. That is very clear on the Norfolk TRACON tapes. They flew a standard Scramble Departure out of Langley and did not turn North earlier in accordance with the Scramble Instructions due to a joint shared failure on the part of Norfolk TRACON and the Quit Flight leader.

I didn't read all of the garbage in that thread, only that between Colin and Balsamo. A waste of time....

 

[1337m4n]

Apparently a 9/11 eyewitness?? I thought you'd been in threads here with him before; he was on the front line of the ATC/NEADS response in Boston Center. He's considerably more than an eyewitness; Ref here interviewed him and posted it.

Or was than an ironic quote and I missed it? If so, I'm so sorry.

I'm on like 3 hours of sleep and on top of that am trying to quit caffeine cold turkey. Brain not operating at peak capacity today.

It still seems to be operating a few notches above Balsamo's though.

 

[rjh01]

I think that e-mail went out to all of their members. Cheap shot should have a copy of it.

 

[BCR]

I don't blame Colin for leaving that cesspool!

Balsamo is WRONG....again. Colin's position report had absolutely nothing to do with the F-15's (Panta) going into holding off Long Island. New York Center didn't want them over NYC, probably due to traffic. There was a discussion about that on one of the NEADS tapes.

Additionally, Colins' position report had absolutely nothing to do with why the Langley Fighters went 090 for 60 nm. That is very clear on the Norfolk TRACON tapes. They flew a standard Scramble Departure out of Langley and did not turn North earlier in accordance with the Scramble Instructions due to a joint shared failure on the part of Norfolk TRACON and the Quit Flight leader.

I didn't read all of the garbage in that thread, only that between Colin and Balsamo. A waste of time....

I will do a rare 'defense' of FAA folks. Norfolk TRACON had nothing to do with the failure of QUIT25 not turning north. That is completely on the lead pilot. The first thing the Norfolk ATC asked was where the pilot wanted to go and was prepared (and expecting) to turn him north. However, Colin had absolutely nothing to do with that call or scramble.

 

[Orphia Nay]

After being asked relevant and pertinent questions with all due respect, Mr. Scoggins dodged, evaded and ignored.

I read that thread a while ago, and they were asking him all sorts of questions irrelevant to his experience on the day. No wonder he didn't answer them.

 

[Reheat]

I will do a rare 'defense' of FAA folks. Norfolk TRACON had nothing to do with the failure of QUIT25 not turning north. That is completely on the lead pilot. The first thing the Norfolk ATC asked was where the pilot wanted to go and was prepared (and expecting) to turn him north. However, Colin had absolutely nothing to do with that call or scramble.

Ultimately, the fault rests on the leader just as it does if he crashes. However, the reason TRACON and Giant Killer also copied the Scramble Order is that they all share a responsibility to comply with it. That's the basis of the relationship between pilots and the FAA in the conduct of air traffic in the first place. They both share responsibility for conducting operations safely during normal conditions, as well. If either one of the (Flight Lead or the TRACON Controller) had been more cognizant of the urgency of the situation the flight would have turned Northwest earlier than it did.

Another factor that contributed is that if the Supervisor of Flying (SOF) had been in the tower rather than flying a number 3 it would likely have been different, as well.

Quite frankly, it really didn't make any difference in the outcome. The launch was too late anyway even if the Quits had turned toward DC right after take-off they still could not have intercepted AA 77.

Gumboot and I had a discussion on this issue quite some time ago. We came to the conclusion that the only way the Quits could have stopped AA-77 under the best scenario would have been a Beyond Visual Range (BVR) shot in the face. NO ONE in their right mind would ever approve that against a Civilian Airliner then or now.

 

[BCR]

Ultimately, the fault rests on the leader just as it does if he crashes. However, the reason TRACON and Giant Killer also copied the Scramble Order is that they all share a responsibility to comply with it. That's the basis of the relationship between pilots and the FAA in the conduct of air traffic in the first place. They both share responsibility for conducting operations safely during normal conditions, as well. If either one of the (Flight Lead or the TRACON Controller) had been more cognizant of the urgency of the situation the flight would have turned Northwest earlier than it did.

Another factor that contributed is that if the Supervisor of Flying (SOF) had been in the tower rather than flying a number 3 it would likely have been different, as well.

Quite frankly, it really didn't make any difference in the outcome. The launch was too late anyway even if the Quits had turned toward DC right after take-off they still could not have intercepted AA 77.

Gumboot and I had a discussion on this issue quite some time ago. We came to the conclusion that the only way the Quits could have stopped AA-77 under the best scenario would have been a Beyond Visual Range (BVR) shot in the face. NO ONE in their right mind would ever approve that against a Civilian Airliner then or now.

Oh I agree. All I'm saying is that the Norfolk tower defered to the lead pilot. If anything, Colin's call to NEADS relative to the phantom AAL11 got the QUIT fighters airborne sooner than they otherwise would have. I have (and continue) to regard Colin as one of the heros of 9/11. That is why I really take offense at CPt'n Bob's latest.

 

[Reheat]

I have (and continue) to regard Colin as one of the heros of 9/11. That is why I really take offense at CPt'n Bob's latest.

The salient point that needs to be made is that without Colin's initiative there would likely have been no response from NORAD at all. They would have been getting their information from CNN like the rest of us....

 

[jaydeehess]

I read that thread a while ago, and they were asking him all sorts of questions irrelevant to his experience on the day. No wonder he didn't answer them.

I work for a TV station that is owned by a cable company. we get;
-Calls from viewers asking why we are showing, or not showing such-and-such a program. We are an affilliate and some programming is not set by us.
-Calls from viewers of other stations asking why this-or-that. We do not know anything about the interanl decisions made by other stations.
-Calls from cable customers asking for a service call. We do not handle cable service, the cable company handles those.
-Calls from cable customers wishing to complain about 'inappropriate' programming on other stations. We do not, and neither does the cable company, have anything to do with programming on other stations.

Soooo, one wonders, why do these people call us?
Because WE are a TV station and they have an issue with TV AND our number is in the local phone book.

Not too far removed from this irrelevent line of inquiry is Cappy Robby asking questions of Cheap Shot which CS has nothing to do with. He might as well have asked why Balsamo's dentists's waiting room does't stock "Sport's Illustrated", or complain that the Canadian cable station, OUTTV airs homosexual content( got that one last year).

 

[jaydeehess]

The salient point that needs to be made is that without Colin's initiative there would likely have been no response from NORAD at all. They would have been getting their information from CNN like the rest of us....

Which is why the brain trust at PfT assumes that Colin was in charge and in the know on all things that day. They do not see that all the intel and command info was not a two way street.
Colin's role was to alert the military and provide some intel to them, not direct them operationally.
Am I mistaken?

 

[ElMondoHummus]

Which is why the brain trust at PfT assumes that Colin was in charge and in the know on all things that day. They do not see that all the intel and command info was not a two way street.
Colin's role was to alert the military and provide some intel to them, not direct them operationally.
Am I mistaken?

I think you're correct. From Ref's interview:

Cheap Shot: I am a controller at Boston Center, have been since 1982. In 1989 I did two years in the Airspace and Procedures office at Boston Center. In 1991 I returned to the Airspace Office on a permanent basis. In 1995 we restructured at the Center and I also assumed the Military Liaison or Military Specialist Position along with my Airspace Duties.

As the military specialist I am responsible for all military procedures between Boston Center and the military units in my airspace, and any visiting military units that participate in any of our Special Use Airspace (SUA). Through the years I have developed a pretty good working relationship with those units. One of the main units I deal with is the Northeastern Air Defense Sector (NEADS). They schedule the majority of SUA in Boston Center Airspace.

Cheap Shot himself can give more detail if he sees this.

 

[George 152]

Cap'n Bob once again demonstrates his arrogance and ignorance..

At least Colin was there.

 

[Cheap Shot]

Thanks for Support

Originally Rob had contacted me several months ago about being interviewed for his upcoming DVD, which was just recently released. I actually set up a couple of times when we could talk and he never contacted me, on the two times I had set up.

So I went over to his sight a couple of weeks ago, to see if we could get a discussion going. I won't say I was ganged up on becasue it was mostly just Rob. I would say the majority of questions he asked me were nothing I could really answer other than issue in which I could offer an opinion and not fact. I was also very busy coaching my grandson's baseball and didn't have time to reply as often as he wanted me to. A loyal member here advised me I was wasting my time over there and that coaching my grandsons team would be far more rewarding, I would have to agree with him.

I'm still involved in my grandsons torunaments so I am still busy doing that, and will probably shy away from the other sight. One individual contacted me from the P4t site and has been very professional in his questions, and I will probably continue to dialog with him. I felt like everytime we had a discussion I came away with a headache. Not really worth it.

I still respond to most people who contact me regarding 9-11, if it is a question I can answer, or I will try to point them in the right direction.

Thanks to all of those who have supported me on this site. I enjoy talking about 9-11 and trying to just set the record straight on what I dealt with that day. There were mistakes made, but I never saw an ounce of evidence with the people I worked with that day that indicated to me that there was a military standown, or that the FAA was some how involved in a cover up.

For those interested I was interviewed by Michael Rudin of the BBC about a month ago for a documentary that the BBC is putting on, on the tenth anniversary. Don't know if it will be shown state side or not.

 

[Horatius]

For those interested I was interviewed by Michael Rudin of the BBC about a month ago for a documentary that the BBC is putting on, on the tenth anniversary. Don't know if it will be shown state side or not.

Would that be the one discussed here?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213238

...where they actually convinced a CTer that it wasn't an inside job? Because that would be cool!

 

[jaydeehess]

There were mistakes made, but I never saw an ounce of evidence with the people I worked with that day that indicated to me that there was a military standown, or that the FAA was some how involved in a cover up.

Thank you for that consise summary. Its really all that need be said.
(Though I fear that some who prefer parsing quotes will quote you only so far as the fourth word above)