Pilots for Truth??? HAH!!

[Oliver]

Careful now....you've been spending too much time with the 'woos'...

....she'll leave leave you if you carry on like this.

Psssst, Bell is listening ... i guess ...

 

[beachnut]

Another potentially large source of error is the fact that the pressure transducer is not optimized (calibrated) to accurately record at low altitudes and very high speeds.

It would be interesting to see the data on the error. I wonder if they even have data on the errors present since the plane was outside of normal operations as that speed at that air density. They were going fast and low, and there could be errors not corrected in the data recorded by the FDR.

 

[Anti-sophist]

The animation anomaly is the dumbest one of all.

He claims that the animation flight path differs from the light-pole-hitting flight path. The likely source of this error is the creator of the animation didn't correct for the difference between magnetic north (what's in the FDR) and true north (the orientation of the map).

When you rotate the map, correctly, the lines line up perfectly.

Pointing out that the NTSB animation might have this small error is a huge hornet's nest, though. Undoubtedly this observation will meet with cries of me claiming the NTSB is incompetant and me believing I know how to do the NTSBs job better then they do. That, and/or, they will claim this proves that the NTSB isn't thorough, etc, etc, etc.

They are still under the delusion that you take the FDR raw file, put it into some magical machine, and it produces a perfect reconstruction animation. They don't understand that someone sat down with the FDR and created a flight path that matches reality within some error measurement. The idea that the animation wasn't designed for to-the-foot-accurate forensic analysis completely blows their mind. If you tell them that, they will start in on how you think you know how to do things better then the NTSB, etc, etc.

The entire problem is they honestly believe that everything the NTSB released comes from a magical machine that does perfect work and there are no errors. They honestly believe that if you claim there are errors, that it's an insult to the NTSB. They don't understand that all science and all reproductions have error.

Or, JDX's favorite tactic, quoting the line that says there were no errors in the data extraction from the FDR. So, because this one particular segment of the FDR to animation process was perfect, therefore, the entire process is perfect.

 

[Oliver]

The entire problem is they honestly believe that everything the NTSB released comes from a magical machine that does perfect work and there are no errors. They honestly believe that if you claim there are errors, that it's an insult to the NTSB. They don't understand that all science and all reproductions have error.

Beside the fact that they truly believe that the
government would fake the data in such a lousy
way if they had something to hide...

 

[rwguinn]

snippage of truth about errors: to...
Or, JDX's favorite tactic, quoting the line that says there were no errors in the data extraction from the FDR. So, because this one particular segment of the FDR to animation process was perfect, therefore, the entire process is perfect.

No errors in the data extraction from the FDR:
Computerspeak for "we could read the data on the FDR, directly, and didn't have to resort to any non-standard methods to extract it"
What it doesn't mean is that the actual data recorded was error free--and these guys (the CTer's) are supposed to be some sort of computer geeks? Obviously, they have never used a floppy disk drive :"Read Error: Could not read from A:\numbn&^s\stupidity.exe"

 

[Bell]

You're still there??? LOL.

jdx banned me after 2 days. I was extremely civil but I think the fact I have an Air Traffic Control backround was a little too much for his fragile ego.

The fact you got suspended simply for posting this vid is a perfect example.

Hee hee! I was banned within 10 minutes of signing up. Hadn't even posted! I picked a user name and explained on these boards why I picked that name. He banned me, and changed my username to BellJREFTroll

 

[Oliver]

Hee hee! I was banned within 10 minutes of signing up. Hadn't even posted! I picked a user name and explained on these boards why I picked that name. He banned me, and changed my username to BellJREFTroll

I also said that i was from JREF but they accepted it.

 

[jaydeehess]

I've been suspended twice now but not banned. I was called a JREF despite my never having even visited this forum.(its my having been on LC and pilots that caused me to check out JREF)

I was suspended from LC for a few days too but I can post again now.

The location of the plane in the animation is taken from the VOR/DME data. The error in precision of those two parameters could account for the plane not showing to be over the lamp posts.

The altitude error is likely a result of the speed of the a/c making the pressure altitude off.

 

[Anti-sophist]

Is there a definitive/authortitative source I can consult about the altimeter speed/pressure differential error?

 

[Oliver]

I've been suspended twice now but not banned. I was called a JREF despite my never having even visited this forum.(its my having been on LC and pilots that caused me to check out JREF)

I was suspended from LC for a few days too but I can post again now.

The location of the plane in the animation is taken from the VOR/DME data. The error in precision of those two parameters could account for the plane not showing to be over the lamp posts.

The altitude error is likely a result of the speed of the a/c making the pressure altitude off.

Welcome on board, Jaydeehess.

I never looked deep into the flight data because
i´m not very familiar with aviation at all. May i
ask what "VOR/DME" and "a/c" means?

- Oliver

 

[Big Al]

May i
ask what "VOR/DME" and "a/c" means?- Oliver

VHF Omnidirectional Radio Ranging
Distance Measuring Equipment
Aircraft

 

[Oliver]

Thank you, Big Al.

 

[Calcas]

VHF Omnidirectional Radio Ranging
Distance Measuring Equipment
Aircraft

Exactly. VOR's are navigational aids..or NavAids. They are radio beacons that transmit in a 360 degree arc.

A/C use these NavAids to navigate from place to place. If you're over Kansas City and you want to fly to Chicago, you tune in the frequency of the Chicago VOR and then simply fly on the heading that brings you toward it. That's what the hijackers did when they turned the plane around in PA...they tuned into the VOR at Regan National in DC. When they got close, they took over visually for the descent into the Pentagon.

 

[Oliver]

Exactly. VOR's are navigational aids..or NavAids. They are radio beacons that transmit in a 360 degree arc.

A/C use these NavAids to navigate from place to place. If you're over Kansas City and you want to fly to Chicago, you tune in the frequency of the Chicago VOR and then simply fly on the heading that brings you toward it. That's what the hijackers did when they turned the plane around in PA...they tuned into the VOR at Regan National in DC. When they got close, they took over visually for the descent into the Pentagon.

Hey! Your explanation does not sound like a conspiracy theory.
Shame on you! ...and thanks for the explanation.