Physical evidence that a plane did NOT hit the Pentagon

Unless you are planning on presenting evidence that a Boeing striking the Pentagon could not have failed to caused the damage that you are expecting to see, then your opinions don't add up to spit.

Just because you think that a Boeing striking the Pentagon must cause a certain type of damage does not make it so, you must show that your assumption is valid. Otherwise your are just making an argument from personal incredulity.

Steady on there wolfy. :D

I don't EXPECT to see anything.

Damage caused to a structure by a unique event is in itself going to be unique and as such we can none of us have preconceptions as to what that damage should look like.

I was merely pointing out, for the benefit of Lyte, that his claim of there being no damage to the floor slab seemed contradicted by two of his pictures.

I was also speculating as to whether there was a void between the top of the slab and the actual floor of the pentagon.
 
Wow, 4 days, 8 pages.

I read the first two and last one, so if anything I say has been covered before forgive me for not wanting to go over the other 5.

I see that Architect and others came in and established what 'foundation' means for Lytely. That was one of the things that tweaked me on page 1.

Also on page 1 is Lyte's claim that the plane went in under the first floor ceiling and that such is the 'official' theory.

That is incorrect. The port wing and part of the starboard wing went in under the ceiling(floor level of the 2nd floor as denoted in the N.American way of things). That puts the bulk of the mass of the fuselage entering the second floor and lo and behold there is a 18 foot wide , basically round, hole in the center ofthe damaged area and on the second floor wall.

He also claims that the port engine is depicted as grinding through the ground at impact. Well the port engine did take a 'bite' out of a curb just in front of the building so it was low and just at ground level as it hit the building. This means that it was hitting that floor slab at a very slight angle which means that there was not much of a vertical component to the velocity of that engine. Then of course once through the wall, for which Lyte is kind enough to illustrate as two feet of limestone, brick and concrete, that engine would no longer be constrained to follow the wing as it was no longer connected to it. The engine would then be free to tumble, twist, or roll and I am quite sure it did a great deal of each along with subsequent impacts with anything inside the Pentagon.

He complains about the tail section not having punched through the wall as well. Once again though it should be pointed out that by the time the tail section reachs the wall it is no longer connected to the bulk of the aircraft and would be free to tumble, twist, rotate when it did impact the wall. The lower portion of that tail section would be entering through the already missing front wall portions while the upper section would be impacting still intact parts of the wall. The upper portion was also less massive than the lower portion and it is quite easy to see that this would result in the tail rotating into the hole (and breaking up in the process).

Lyte states that the damage to the front wall is consistent with explosives as he says that columns are blown outward. One problem with this is that Lyte cannot show that the columns are indeed leaning outward can he? He is using a one dimensional picture that shows the columns leaning but this is hardly suprising given that it also shows the whole structure above the first floor slumping. Those columns can just as easily be leaning inward. The wall above the first floor is quite likely bulging outward. The columns below have been broken and no longer support the upper mass. The upper mass is constrained from moving inward by the stiff flooring but it is unconstrained from going in the other direction. The mass of the upper floors is also being bourne in a catenary fashion by those floor and attached to intact interior columns. This would cause a rotation about those connections as the floor bow which would be seen from the outside as a bulge. Thus, in a one dimensional picture it might appear that the wall and the columns are leaning outward as if an explosion had occured within the building.

BUT, if there was an explosion that was capable of removing this amonut of front wall and blowing outward then one should also note the debris from that outward moving wall debris all around the Pentagon. witnesses near the Pentagon should have noted huge amounts of shattered limestone, brick and concrete flying past them. The front wall is missing for approx 90 feet. The wall is 24 inches(2 feet) thick. Assuming that doors and windows take up approx half of the surface and that the floor is only 8 feet tall(in which I assume values designed to under estimate the volume of the missing wall all around IMHO) we have a volume of limestone, brick and concrete of
(90 X 2 X 8) X 0.5 = 720 cubic feet of debris that should be in front of the wall. To put this in perspective a large dump truck can carry 10-15 cubic yards(= 90 to 135 cubic feet) which means we should see 5 or so truckloads of debris ( if the wall is 10 feet high, or , if the windows and doors only take up 40% of the surface of the wall, then that's an additional truckload each) from that wall lieing about in front of the building. Is this in evidence in any photo?
 
Double post, deleted. See next post. Apologies.

Respectfully,
Myriad.
 
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Hi Lyte Trip,

I'd like to discuss the illusion you're suggesting, of a flyover screened by a fireball, from a point of view of principles of stage magic. It occurs to me, from my skeptical perspective, that you might be under some common (and often deliberately fostered) misimpressions of how stage illusions actually work. For example, "misdirection" as a stage magic concept doesn't mean what most people think it means. As a result, you appear to be overestimating how effective an illusion based on getting witnesses to look away from the vanishing object (in this case, the plane) could be.

Clearly, your whole case for a flyover depends on this illusion. Even if your witnesses are correct about the flight path, even if (let's suppose) persuasive evidence of bomb damage were found in the building, it all comes to nothing if there's no plausible explanation for how the plane whose incoming trajectory was witnessed by many people could have cleared the building and left the scene unwitnessed.

Therefore, I would expect that you have begun undertaking a thorough review of illusion techniques, with an eye toward extending your simulation to show how the illusion worked in the ten seconds or so after the explosion, while the plane (per your theory) passed over the rest of the building and continued in flight from there, as viewed from different angles. Stage magic, of course, is not real magic, so every illusion has a specific method to it, including a specific way of hiding the "vanished" article or person from subsequent view. Until you can posit a method and demonstrate its effectiveness, your flyover hypothesis will not be credible.

If you haven't begun such a study, there are any number of books on stage illusions, available at bookstores, specialty magic stores, and libraries. (If you were wondering, there's no "Magican's Code" restricting the sale of such information, except insofar as the sellers usually want money for it. For instance, no one at Tannen's ever asked me to pull a rabbit out of a hat or show a signed copy of any Magician's Oath before selling me stage illusion construction plans.)

Anyway, this is a bit off-topic for this thread, but I'm willing to start a new thread for the topic if you're interested. While I don't agree with your conclusions, I do give you credit for maintaining a civil tone consistent with a desire to persuade rather than provoke. I'll to risk being blamed for starting "yet another PentaCON thread," since I think the discussion might be interesting.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Just one question Lyte, what is the white glow on your animation (your avatar)?

Is that artistic license?
 
Plus we have proven that the plane flew on the north side of the gas station so it couldn't have caused the physical damage anyway.


Dude, no you have not. You have proven that four people seem to think, or believe, it flew on the north side of the NEX gas station. You have not proven that the plane actually flew on the north side of the NEX gas station. Do you understand that logic? Dude?


Also, explain why the need to fake a specific flight path (i.e. the light poles). Would the conspiracy have been any less believable had it not knocked out those light poles? And how did one end up in the windshield of a taxi cab? Was it launched from an RPG tube? Also, how did they stage all of that debris in the mere seconds between the explosion and everyone staring at the Pentagon?
 
That's a lame hypothetical generalization.


No, it's not a generalization so much as an accurate observation about the tendencies of conspiracy liars.


I brought back proof that the plane flew on the north side of the gas station.


No, you produced nothing that rises anywhere near the level of proof.



I am not making this up.


You strike me as more crazy and unintelligent than dishonest.


Now we know why the damage is so cookie cutter and anomalous and there was so little debris.



Some people do understand the nature of the damage to the Pentagon. You are not among them.



The eyewitnesses have definitively confirmed the suspicions.


Whether you're crazy or simply lying is not terribly important. In fact, eyewitnesses have strongly contradicted your absurd fantasies.
 
According to you?

Not according to the official story or the physical damage.

They both clearly indicate that the plane had to be TILTED with the right wing up and the left wing down.
When he said the plane was going parallel, he meant that its flight path was basically horizontal, not that the wings were perfectly level with each other. Also, you never answered my question about your claim that the official story says that the plane went underneath the first and second floors. Everyone else here knows that the plane entered the first and second floors. Just like the drawing you posted.

And then you posted images in which you can barely make out the slab, with some kind of vague claims about the foundation being undamaged. Can you be more specific? I wouldn't expect an engine to burrow very far into a concrete slab, edgewise, even at 500 mph. Especially after it hit a concrete curb outside the Pentagon's outer wall first, which would apparently cause it to begin tumbling upwards, more into the first floor area than the slab.


We've had one of you in this thread that was man enough to admit that Purdue was incorrect in their analysis...
As far as I know, the official story in no way depends on the Purdue animation. I believe that was done as an exercise in FEA for graduate students, not a genuine investigation tool.
 
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People, is there really a need to spend more time on Lyte Trip's idiocy? Why give him the attention he craves?
 
Myriad,
Excellent post but IMHO Lyte has not been very civil.

Perhaps so, but not all the skeptics have excelled in civility on this thread either. Lyte Trip has done, at least, better than average for being outnumbered in an adversarial argument. I make allowances for being only human in such trying circumstances.

That said, let me make it clear that I don't believe that the discussion of stage illusions that I've proposed will be favorable to the flyover hypothesis or influence anyone's opinion in that direction. But because I could be wrong, I'm willing to address the topic and perhaps Lyte Trip will be also, for the same reason.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Concerning "The PentaCon"


When Robert is interviewed he states he saw one engine 'on the wing'. He is obviously stating that he could not see the engine on the other wing. Repeatedly he is also asked if he saw any other plane and specifically if he saw a C-130.

The interviewer however ignores his stating that there was no other aircraft and characterizes his account as that of a single engine craft.

The interviewer also ignores the internal inconsistencies in the witnesses testimony. Robert states he could only see one engine on the wing but also has stated that he was all but directly under the plane as it passed over. It would not be possible to be unable to see both engines from that vantage point. Unless the aircraft that passed overhead had only one engine on one wing the statements are inconsistent.
Another inconsistency is that Robert draws a flight path on the photo putting the plane directly over the corner of the canopy. Asked which part of the plane went over the canopy's corner he states the right wing did. That would put the trajectory over the asphalt to the north of the canopy. Did Robert draw a path of the starboard wing or did he misunderstand the question and state that or mis-state which wing went over the corner of the canopy and then change his story to match what he just said rather than admit that he meant the port wing went over the corner.
Robert states that the plane pulled up to clear a highway overhead sign. When he details his account of it pulling up it is obvious that he is saying that it pulled up while he was moving up the enbankment. In other words he had to be watching the plane while running and asending the enbankment. This would have his view changing as he moved north and up and would affect how he perceived the movement of the plane.
Robert also states he did not see the impact. He says this is due to the enbankment being lower then than it is today but the interviewer ignores that instead concentrating on his saying that he did not see the impact.

It is very possible that Robert saw the aircraft pass to the south of the station but is misreading how close it is to him. He believes it passed directly over the station but it was further south than that. He climbs the bank which further confuses the interpretation of the movement of the aircraft. He states he saw the plane pass in about two seconds. That is probably an understatement as it would hardly give him time to run to the enbankment. However it does underline the short time he had to develop any visual reference as the plane roared by.
When interviewed he says the right wing passed over the corner but then realizes that he meant to say the left wing and instead of correcting himself he changes his story to match his mistake which is evident in the very deliberate drawing of the flight path where he at best puts the fuselage over the corner of the building. He now actually has two paths for the plane, the one he drew(fuselage over the corner), his last one in which he puts the fuselage over the tree to the north of the station and there is the suggestion that he saw the entire aircraft over the station which would neccessitate the aircraft be south of the canopy since the plane is wider than the entire station.

Sgt Brook states he was filling his vehicle "where that gentleman is" pointing to a man filling his car in the second from the north end. The interviewer states "so, the far right?" and Brooks answers in the affirmative. But from the pov of where they are standing it is slightly to the right and to the pov of the canopy it is closer to the far left.
Later Brooks is describing where he saw the plane and is asked if it was to the left or to the right. He states to the left and points. However this is the direction which he had, moments before, characterized as 'right'.
As the interview continues he states that saw the plane "go directly in front of the building". While it seems obvious that the building he is refering to is the Pentagon he could mean the Citgo station. That would put the aircraft to the south of the station. However, it is a good bet he is refering to the Pentagon. Therefore he states it is in front of the Pentagon and then boom a huge explosion. He states, three times, very clearly that he saw the plane impact the Pentagon!!!
He describes the plane as a "very large " aircraft. he says '737' but the basic shape of a 737 is a passenger jet with two wing mounted engines, so is a 757 and a 767. Most people would recognize a 747 with its bulge in the forward part of the fuselage but the other three look basically the same unless one has time to get a good look or is very familiar with each aircraft. Obviously he did not have that time. Everything happened very quick but he seems pretty sure he saw a logo and states it may have been "United" blue logo. Sgt. Brooks is really not all that certain about any of the details of the aircraft he saw, except for having seen it fly into the Pentagon. I don't fault him for this. It was a situation unlike any he had ever witnessed before and will in all probability never witness again and from start to finish lasted only seconds culminating in the single most riveting scene he is likely to ever see, the impact of a high speed , large aircraft into a large, important building.

Sgt. Lagasse positively identifies the aircraft as American Airlines. He states that the plane went from where he first saw it to the Pentagon in a second. Probably not quite right but again very quick. He positively states , no landing gear or flaps down. He very positively states that the plane hit the Pentagon even describing that it hit at an angle and using his hands to indicate an angle very much in agreement with that which we are told the plane hit the building. He does seem to be quite confident that the plane went over to the north but readily admits(albeit with a slight bit of sheepishness in his voice and demeanor) that recollections change. He does state that it was never coming at him yet he ducks into his car. Ok that could be a common reaction, its moving fast and the brain has not had time to determine exact trajectory yet so you act instinctively. It could also be that the plane was indeed coming at him and he reacted to that. It also puts him moving quickly which as in the case of Robert can confuse the mind as to the direction the object came from or manouvers it made. Later he describes how he is reconstructing in his mind where the plane was by what he could see concerning the trees and other obstructions. In other words he cannot be sure, he is assuming a direction from the visibility he had from where he was. He saw the plane hit the Pentagon but is adamant that there was no upward mevement of the plane. He mentions, and all the witnesses here also say, that he did not see it hit the light poles. However, he also points out that the poles blend into the building as they are a similar color as the building and are barely visible at all. the videographer zooms into "light pole 1" from where he is standing. This is not where Sgt Lagasse was at the time nor did the Sgt. have the ability to 'zoom in'. He believes that the plane took only a second to move from where he first saw it to the Pentagon. However can that be? At 400 to 450 MPH the plane was doing 580 to 660 feet per second. If the aircraft was more than 660 feet from the building when he first saw it then it had to take longer than one second. In fact the Citgo station is much farther than 660 feet from the Pentagon, more like three times that distance and the Sgt states he saw the plane before the plane had reached the station. It was longer than one second.
Sgt Lagasse does not know how he ended up in his car, only that he did. This would neccessitate him taking his eyes off the scene and he seems to put this movement of getting into the car before the impact of the aircraft with the building.
Near the end he also states that the poles that were hit were north of where the poles actually were hit, that the taxi was north of where the taxi actually was. So is his recollection of the path of the aircraft incorrect or is the loaction of the poles and the taxi incorrect? Given that we know exactly where the poles and the taxi were I vote he is incorrect. What may have occured is he saw the aircraft coming and saw enough to notice the AA logo and no wheels down, dove into his car and then looked up again. By this time the aircraft has passed the station, to the south. He did not see it pass to the south because he was entering his car at the time. Now he looks up to see the plane fly into the Pentagon. Later, in reconstructing the memory he believes he first saw the plane north of where he actually did see it or has incorrectly assumed its trajectory before he enters his car. If the plane had gone along the path he said it did it could not have impacted the building at the angle he is quite sure it hit.
That is all I have had time to go over but what we have here is the whole range of the problems with eyewitness testimony.

This is far from 'smoking gun' evidence.
 
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No, not at all. In fact, it's not only not impossible, but it is highly probable that the plane would have crashed into the Pentagon if you believe Lagasse's account.

Hypothetically maybe but not in regards to the physical damage. This makes it impossible.

If you'll remember from your interview with Lagasse he stated that the plane was only about 100 to 150 feet above ground level when the plane was at the Citgo station. [This, BTW, contradicts the claim by PFT that the plane was 300 feet over the street light poles by the time it got anywhere close to them, but that's a separate issue.]
PFT does not make any claims as to the altitude of the plane. They merely report what the FDR says. So it's the FDR that conflicts with Lagasse and the physical damage....not PFT.

Given the altitude which Lagasse attributes to the plane and given the angle of descent of the plane it is much more likely that the plane would have crashed into the Pentagon than it is that the plane would have suddenly pulled up to fly over the Pentagon with that rather dramatic maneuver going unnoticed.

This makes it very likely that the plane hit the Pentagon just as Lagasse told you it did.
How can you know the true angle of descent? Plus again it is impossible for a plane on that side of the station to have caused the physical damage so you are incorrect.

Therefore, since we've established that the plane hit the Pentagon, now the only anomalies we have to account for are the damage pattern reported inside the Pentagon and the location of the downed light poles. Since the flight path given by the NTSB for flight 77 perfectly coincides with these events, the most likely explanation for them is that the plane came in on that flight path, which in turn means that either the location of the plane that Lagasse gave you can be reconciled with this flight path or that Lagasse is simply mistaken.
Lagasse isn't the only one who saw the plane on the north side. His placement of the plane is corroborated by all the citgo witnesses and contradicted by none. You are using circular logic.

Might Lagasse be mistaken in regard to the location at which he first places the plane?

In your interview with Lagasse, he mentions something about the plane being almost past him before he spotted it. I think he mentioned something about the Doppler effect to account for this. Do you think that it's possible that he never actually saw the plane until it was fully past him and that he unconsciously mentally reconstructed the location from which, in his mind, the plane had to be coming? Remember, this all took place in two seconds or less.
Watch the interview again because you are wrong. The "doppler effect" is in regards to when he "heard" the plane but he was very explicit in the fact that he SAW the plane BEFORE he heard it. He even points out electrical transformers on a pole as the place where he first saw it. The fact that all the other witnesses place the plane in the same general area indicates that he is accurate in his approximate placement of the plane on the north side of the station.

I'm not saying this IS what happened. I'm offering this only as one of many possibilities which might explain the discrepancy.
This is a drastic mistake. What are the odds that they would all make the exact same drastic mistake? Slim to none.

To digress for a second, one of the things I don't like about any of the conspiracy theories that I've heard, including yours (no offense), is the 'certainty' with which most of these theories claim that certain events had to transpire. Well, there is no certainty when we are dealing with human perception. It's perfectly feasible that any of our perceptions might be mistaken at any time. It is the whole body of evidence which must be accounted for, not particular remembrances.
There becomes a period when a claim is so simple and so general that when corroborated it becomes virtually undeniable.

Consider this analogy:
3 pedestrians in the same general area that they all frequent on a daily basis
all witness a fatal car accident on an intersection a 1/2 a block north of them. If each were questioned
about the incident on location some time after the fact it would stand
to reason that they may have different stories about specific details
like what type of cars were involved, the color, exactly how the
accident happened etc. But if they all place the accident on the same
intersection that was 1/2 block north of them rather than south of them
couldn't the interviewer be fairly certain that the probability that
this very general yet 100% corroborated claim was correct?
Do you understand how perfect this analogy is?

Although Turcios, Brooks, and Lagasse all had different descriptions of the plane they all saw it fly by in the same general vicinity and they all frequent that gas station/area daily. Does it really seem feasible to you that they could all be so ridiculously mistaken in the exact same way about such a simple claim? You see they all would have had to simultaneously remember the complete opposite of reality. The physical damage flight path is drastically different from what they all saw. Lagasse's vantage point was such that he wouldn't have seen it at all through the building on the south side. All of their senses would have been drawn to the other side of the station.



True, but ALL the facts have to be taken into consideration.

So what are the facts in our case here?

A) We have five light poles knocked from their pedestals with the tops severed which just happen to perfectly coincide with the flight path attributed to a plane by the world's finest airliner crash investigators.
Hyperbole and circular logic. If the citgo witnesses are correct the poles had to have been staged.

B) We have several witnesses who state unambiguously that they saw the plane hit the light poles.
Very incorrect. You have about 20 that mention the poles but only 1 specifically states that she "saw" the poles get clipped. Wanda Ramey. We have spoken with 3 published so called "light pole witnesses" (sucherman, mcgraw, and brooks) who ALL admitted they merely deduced the poles after the fact. Wanda Ramey either deduced it just like them or is embellishing her account.

C) We have a report issued by the American Society of Civil Engineers in which the damage pattern found inside the Pentagon accurately matches the damage pattern that should be expected from a 757's impacting the Pentagon on the flight path given by the NTSB.
NTSB flight path conflicts with the physical damage AND they eyewitnesses. The ASCE report conflicts with the eyewitnesses. You are using the same circular logic to discredit the eyewitnesses.

D) And we have your interviews in which witnesses state, in perfect harmony with the above, that they saw a plane crash into the Pentagon.
Yes but since they all saw the plane on the north side we know the impact could not have happened.

The only wildcard here, unless the location attributed to the plane by your witnesses can be reconciled with the NTSB-determined flight path, is why your interviewees would place the plane in a different location than the location in which it almost certainly was.

There are, however, explanations even for this as I outlined above.

No need to review them, I remember them perfectly; but I find them to be more convenient than persuasive.
You have not brought anything new to the table that convincingly demonstrates how all witnesses at the citgo would simultaneously hallucinate the exact opposite of reality.

Using the conflicting physical evidence as a means to prove them wrong is merely circular logic.
 
Hi Lyte Trip,

I'd like to discuss the illusion you're suggesting, of a flyover screened by a fireball, from a point of view of principles of stage magic. It occurs to me, from my skeptical perspective, that you might be under some common (and often deliberately fostered) misimpressions of how stage illusions actually work. For example, "misdirection" as a stage magic concept doesn't mean what most people think it means. As a result, you appear to be overestimating how effective an illusion based on getting witnesses to look away from the vanishing object (in this case, the plane) could be.

Clearly, your whole case for a flyover depends on this illusion. Even if your witnesses are correct about the flight path, even if (let's suppose) persuasive evidence of bomb damage were found in the building, it all comes to nothing if there's no plausible explanation for how the plane whose incoming trajectory was witnessed by many people could have cleared the building and left the scene unwitnessed.

Therefore, I would expect that you have begun undertaking a thorough review of illusion techniques, with an eye toward extending your simulation to show how the illusion worked in the ten seconds or so after the explosion, while the plane (per your theory) passed over the rest of the building and continued in flight from there, as viewed from different angles. Stage magic, of course, is not real magic, so every illusion has a specific method to it, including a specific way of hiding the "vanished" article or person from subsequent view. Until you can posit a method and demonstrate its effectiveness, your flyover hypothesis will not be credible.

If you haven't begun such a study, there are any number of books on stage illusions, available at bookstores, specialty magic stores, and libraries. (If you were wondering, there's no "Magican's Code" restricting the sale of such information, except insofar as the sellers usually want money for it. For instance, no one at Tannen's ever asked me to pull a rabbit out of a hat or show a signed copy of any Magician's Oath before selling me stage illusion construction plans.)

Anyway, this is a bit off-topic for this thread, but I'm willing to start a new thread for the topic if you're interested. While I don't agree with your conclusions, I do give you credit for maintaining a civil tone consistent with a desire to persuade rather than provoke. I'll to risk being blamed for starting "yet another PentaCON thread," since I think the discussion might be interesting.

Respectfully,
Myriad

I would be very interested in such a thread Myriad.

Please do start it.

But I would first like to add that our "theory" does not rely solely on a single illusionary trick to fool everyone.

There was an important cover story as well as other diversions.

The cover story was other accounts of a "2nd plane" that
"shadowed" the jet and "veered off" just after the explosion.


The diversion was actual other planes that circled the area immediately after the explosion.

People are most familiar with pilot Steve O'brien and his c-130 but there was a white E4b in the area as well as America West plane tail number N644AW (AA 77 was N644AA) that supposedly landed at Reagan at 9:39. 1 minute after the alleged impact.

We also have footage of another plane circling the area minutes before the impact time.

So any analogies that you use must take this additional information into consideration.
 
[The generator] was probably partially prefabricated and then finished off with explosives.

Perhaps it was even moved in advance or simply blown in that direction.

In other words, you do not know for sure and have to assume these things so that they fit your version of the truth, correct?

I might add that an explosion of the magnitude that could take that big of a gouge out of the generator would most certainly have been visible on the security footage. It was not visible.

Lyte, this is what I wanted you to respond to last night.
 
Lyte Trip said:
Yes but since they all saw the plane on the north side we know the impact could not have happened.


Wait a minute....your own witnesses have said

A) the plane passed over on the north side of the citgo, and
B) they witnessed the impact

You believe them when they say A, but not when they say B? What leads you to make that choice? If your witnesses are so unreliable that 50% of their statements are mistaken, then there is an equal possibility that it is statement A that is mistaken.
 
Lyte is no different then Judy Woods and her space beams.
They both believe their fantasies and will defend them to the death despite being 100% wrong.
Lyte you still HAVE NEVER addressed what your qualifications are?
You hold no degrees IN ANYTHING yet you **** on people who spent years investigating the pentagon and who hold high level degrees.
You chit on people who had to remove body parts, DNA, ETC.
My favorite part of your movie fraud was when over and over you would say to your witnesses
"are you sure you didnt see the second plane, other people saw it"
You are a fraud and you NOTHING about how to do an investigation, hell you dont even know how to operate a camera and mic.
I wont even comment on how you got some 19 year old kid to edit your movie and you had only known him for what a month before you asked him to edit your movie?
Oh and that "really cool Italian dude" who did your 3d animations.
 
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Lyte, this is what I wanted you to respond to last night.

I have never claimed to know for sure how they staged the damage to the generator trailer.

You asked me to speculate about this!

That's another thing I noticed about members here. You will demand that I speculate about specific details and then say....."AH HA! You are just speculating!"

We'll we did not speculate the north side of the citgo claim and if the eyewitnesses are even somewhat correct in their placement of the plane it proves that the generator damage was somehow staged.

To suggest it would be impossible for the richest most powerful defense agency on earth to do this in their own backyard is not a valid argument.
 
Wait a minute....your own witnesses have said

A) the plane passed over on the north side of the citgo, and
B) they witnessed the impact

You believe them when they say A, but not when they say B? What leads you to make that choice? If your witnesses are so unreliable that 50% of their statements are mistaken, then there is an equal possibility that it is statement A that is mistaken.

If they are incorrect about B then it does not mean they are incorrect about A.

Quite the contrary.

In fact it pretty much proves that they were correct about A.

However it is impossible for them to be correct about A and B together.

There are many reasons why it's more logical to suggest they are correct about A.

Please see my thread about Lagasse and Brooks for a list of them.
 

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