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Phone cable length - does it make a difference, performance-wise?

Morrigan

Crone of War
Morrigan
Joined
Feb 3, 2006
Messages
8,262
Calling out the networking experts here, I'm sure there are some of you here. :)

So a few days ago we switched ISP, moving from regular DSL (2.5 mbps) to Bell's FIBE (Fiber optics, 7 mbps). A Bell technician came over and made some changes to our phone plugs and everything, and we setup the new modem (it has a built-in wireless router in it).

Our old setup was basically as follows: we ran a long phone cable from the wall to our DSL modem, the modem being close to the PCs. We plugged it into a wifi router, and plugged short ethernet cables from the two PCs to our router.

He said that having such a long phone cable was not recommended, and could result in more frequent connection drops and instability. He said it was better to have the modem plugged into the wall with a shorter cable, and have long ethernet cables to the PC instead.

Problem is, this is kind of inconvenient. The way we were set up, the phone cable is really thin and runs discreetly (under a thin wooden frame on the floor that acts as a separator between our living room where the PCs are, and the adjacent room), and the thicker ethernet cables are out of the way, dangling behind our PC desks. But now, using his recommended setup, we have two thick ethernet cables lying across the floor, which are kind of in the way, and they're too thick to slide discreetly under that wooden frame we used. They're just lying there, and I nearly tripped on them a few times. :(

So my question is, does the length of the phone cable really make a difference in connection drops, loss packets, etc.? To be honest, we did experience rather frequent drops with our old ISP (which was just one of the reasons we wanted to switch), but I have no idea if it's related to the cable length or just poor quality/service in general. I'm willing to sacrifice convenience for more stability, but not if the difference is rather insignificant... if it is, I'd have to find a way to get those ethernet cables out of the way somehow.

I also want to add (since I talked about this with a friend and she said "I don't know much about networking but it sounds like BS, you might not want to trust that guy"), that the technician who told me this was overall really cool and helpful, he went above the call of duty to help us -- long story but basically without him we'd have been without internet for a full week due to a screw up from the ISP -- and I have no reason to doubt his honesty. If the cable length thing is really a myth/BS, then he was just mistaken rather than dishonest. I basically just want second opinions from other networking experts. :)
 
What the technician said isn't incorrect, but it is hard to judge from an outside standpoint. if you are talking about the difference between a cable length of 10ft compared to 18ft, there is no point thinking twice about it. If you cable difference is 8ft compared to 100ft then issues can arise depending on the quality of cable you are using.
I used to have to run a Ethernet cable of 100ft to the nearest outlet. There was minor some issues with the setup but it still ran smooth enough. Normally you are still ok for distances up to 3 times that before you loose anything significant. So I would say that you should have nothing to worry about even without knowing your cable lengths.
 
Cable runs are limited by length, sure (called signal attenuation), but at least in ethernet cat-5 type of runs it's around 100m. Even a 25foot length of telephone wire wouldn't worry me any. What would be slightly more concerning to me is where the cable is laid -- is it near any electrical motors or light fixtures, for example. These sources can (I stress 'can') have a deleterious effect on internet signals.

I'm too poor to be able to afford a fancy-smancy ethernet signal tester; mine is a basic "does this thing work?" type deal, so I personally couldn't test for attenuation (I do home computer fix-it repair for a (theoretical) living).
 
Even our "long" cable isn't that long, apparently. I just took out a measuring tape, couldn't be bothered to be all that accurate (didn't want to unplug anything or reach behind the furniture too much) but I estimate that the "long" one is about 2.6m (3m at the most), whereas the currently plugged short one is ~45-50cm.

I take it we could continue with our old cable without worry, then?
 
I also have Bell Fibe7 for a month now, the copper wire runs for maybe 15 feet from my router to exterior of the house and another 25-30 feet of copper wire to the utility pole. I think the fiberoptic is maybe 250 meter from my house, so I guess 10 feet more or less does not change much.

Speedtest rates my connection at 7.24 Mb/s (download) and 0.83 Mb/s (upload). What is your speed ?

http://www.speedtest.net/

I did not experience any connection drop or instability.
 
Morrigan said:
Even our "long" cable isn't that long, apparently. I just took out a measuring tape, couldn't be bothered to be all that accurate (didn't want to unplug anything or reach behind the furniture too much) but I estimate that the "long" one is about 2.6m (3m at the most), whereas the currently plugged short one is ~45-50cm.

I take it we could continue with our old cable without worry, then?
Click to expand...

Geez, only 3 meters? I was thinking more along the lines of 10+ meters. Nah, it's nothing I'd worry about, nor (if you were my client) would I even bring it up in the first place.

But, I mean, sure, best practices would dictate that the cable made for network traffic should be the larger of the two, but...
 
A quick check would be to run nimzov's speedtest.net a couple times, then plug your long phone cable in place of the short one (without moving any equipment) and try the test again a few times.
 
The Norseman said:
Geez, only 3 meters? I was thinking more along the lines of 10+ meters. Nah, it's nothing I'd worry about, nor (if you were my client) would I even bring it up in the first place.

But, I mean, sure, best practices would dictate that the cable made for network traffic should be the larger of the two, but...
Click to expand...

Seconded. Do not give the issue any more thought. There will be no perceived changes on that magnitude of length.
 
Thanks everyone. We'll definitely put back the old cabling setup tomorrow, it was much more convenient. :) At the worst, if I experience routine drops or instabilities I can always revert later.

nimzov said:
I also have Bell Fibe7 for a month now, the copper wire runs for maybe 15 feet from my router to exterior of the house and another 25-30 feet of copper wire to the utility pole. I think the fiberoptic is maybe 250 meter from my house, so I guess 10 feet more or less does not change much.

Speedtest rates my connection at 7.24 Mb/s (download) and 0.83 Mb/s (upload). What is your speed ?

http://www.speedtest.net/

I did not experience any connection drop or instability.
Click to expand...

Nice, how do you like it so far? What were you using before?

I got 7.32 Mbps / 0.7 Mbs on the test.
 
I doubt your original setup would be a problem but you could also look into flat ethernet cables that are about as thick as telephone wire.
 
Morrigan said:
Nice, how do you like it so far? What were you using before?

I got 7.32 Mbps / 0.7 Mbs on the test.
Click to expand...
Quite satisfied.

I was with Primus and was told the line could deliver "up to" 5 Mb/s. In fact what I had was closer to 2 Mb/s.
 
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nimzov said:
Quite satisfied.

I was with Primus and was told the line could deliver "up to" 5 Mb/s. In fact what I had was closer to 2 Mb/s.
Click to expand...

Mirabile dictu! Rogers advertising is right. (Well at least about one thing.) :boggled:

I get 10.04 down and 0.48 up on my laptop via my wireless router and 18.22 down and 0.51 up on my wired desk top.
 
Keep in mind...Cat-5 and phone line are essentially the same thing internally. The only difference really is cosmetic. Phone line is 4 strands of wire, Cat-5 has 8 strands.

BUT, 4 strands vs. 8 strands really has little to do with data transfer. That line you plug into the wall for your phone? Only 2 strands are for data, the other 2 for voice (you know, the actual phone). You can use an RJ-11 phone jack end on an 8 strand Cat-5 line and your phone will work as per usual.

Basically, what I'm saying is that Cat-5 (aka: Ethernet) cable is nothing more than glorified phone wire. The distances wire can cover in a dwelling is no problem for data to travel over either type.
 
I have an ethernet run at work that is in excess of 250 feet. From one end of the building to the other. It worked fine until the computer at the far end died and the motherboard had to be replaced. Now it won't go faster than 10 mbps. It's really slow to transfer big files, but it works.

So a few feet of wire is nothing for most signals.
 
Sabretooth said:
Keep in mind...Cat-5 and phone line are essentially the same thing internally. The only difference really is cosmetic. Phone line is 4 strands of wire, Cat-5 has 8 strands.

BUT, 4 strands vs. 8 strands really has little to do with data transfer. That line you plug into the wall for your phone? Only 2 strands are for data, the other 2 for voice (you know, the actual phone). You can use an RJ-11 phone jack end on an 8 strand Cat-5 line and your phone will work as per usual.

Basically, what I'm saying is that Cat-5 (aka: Ethernet) cable is nothing more than glorified phone wire. The distances wire can cover in a dwelling is no problem for data to travel over either type.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't call the differences cosmetic. The big difference is that Cat-5 is designed to eliminate interference, both internally and externally, by using twisted pair wires (though long-range phone cabling does this, too), and using shielding.

But, yeah, it's not much difference between phone and data cabling. In fact, most modern office buildings use the same network and jacks for phone and data.
 
Length is not much of an issue but tight bends can cause the packets that are not paying attention to hit the sided of the cable and get corrupted.
 
Some phone cables do not use twisted pair which makes them only really suitable for voice calls or alarm systems as they are more susceptible to interference.

If the cable between your wall socket and the modem is twisted pair, then length doesn't sound like an issue.
 
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