Split Thread Philosophy of Libertarianism

[catsmate]

This thread split from here.

Posted By: Loss Leader

As long as the consumers are adults, they should retain the option.

Libertarian rubbish.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Libertarian rubbish.

What do you have against the idea?

 

[catsmate]

What do you have against the idea?

Libertarianism? It's another failed doctrine.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Libertarianism? It's another failed doctrine.

It accomplishes exactly what it is designed to accomplish.i value what that over other things. You dont. But it isn't designed to satisfy your preferences.

 

[autumn1971]

As long as the consumers are adults, they should retain the option.

It explicitly excludes the well-known effects on others that the individual course of action has. As does most Libertarian theory.

 

[BobTheCoward]

It explicitly excludes the well-known effects on others that the individual course of action has. As does most Libertarian theory.

As it should.

 

[Pixel42]

It accomplishes exactly what it is designed to accomplish.i value what that over other things. You dont. But it isn't designed to satisfy your preferences.

Sorry, I can't work out what that was supposed to say.

 

[I Am The Scum]

From what I can tell, libertarians want me to believe that I should value some nebulous theory of rights over the wellbeing of society as a whole. It's a tough pitch, and they're not very good salesmen.

 

[Diablo]

Are there, or have there ever been, societies which could be described as Libertarian?

 

[I Am The Scum]

Are there, or have there ever been, societies which could be described as Libertarian?

A few times, yes.

It doesn't work out that well.

 

[Giordano]

Bob and I have had this discussion before.

As I see it, libertarianism as a philosophy denies the entire purpose of civilization and the reason that people join together into societies and cooperate to achieve things that cannot be accomplished as isolated individuals. It rejects the basis by which we are successful as a species. Look at the the progress of civilizations, inventions, science, and ideas over the sweep of history. Think about the broad human achievements of which we are most proud. How much of that would have been achieved under libertarianism?

Libertarianism as applied in practice by most of its advocates is simplier still. It comes down to "I have an inherent natural right to do anything I want to. You, on the other hand, do not." I can see its appeal...

 

[Diablo]

A few times, yes.

It doesn't work out that well.

Oh yes, I remember Sealand now. None of them was successful, as you say.

 

[JoeMorgue]

One of the things contrarians hide behind the most is the internet version of Libertarianism, which to them basically means "Selective selfish personal anarchy."

 

[ddt]

A few times, yes.

It doesn't work out that well.

You forgot the longest-lasting one.

 

[ahhell]

Are there, or have there ever been, societies which could be described as Libertarian?

A few times, yes.

It doesn't work out that well.

Oh yes, I remember Sealand now. None of them was successful, as you say.

Its worth pointing out that they mostly didn't last long because they were shut down by various governments. Somolia is an obvious straw man unless you can find libertarians that advocate violent thugs running things.

 

[ddt]

Its worth pointing out that they mostly didn't last long because they were shut down by various governments.

This other rational wiki article has some more examples, where libertarian-run cities were run into the ground.

Somolia is an obvious straw man unless you can find libertarians that advocate violent thugs running things.

Given that libertarians believe in also privatizing security services, that is the inevitable outcome of a libertarian society. So no, I don't think it's a strawman.

 

[bruto]

From what I can tell, libertarians want me to believe that I should value some nebulous theory of rights over the wellbeing of society as a whole. It's a tough pitch, and they're not very good salesmen.

The amusing thing is that, as far as I can see, the idea that a pure theory should be preferred to actual results bears the greatest resemblance to Maoism. The theory is perfect. If something goes wrong it's someone's fault.

 

[theprestige]

This other rational wiki article has some more examples, where libertarian-run cities were run into the ground.


Given that libertarians believe in also privatizing security services, that is the inevitable outcome of a libertarian society. So no, I don't think it's a strawman.

It's a total strawman. Somalia is a failed state dominated by authoritarian hegemons. By definition, it cannot be an example of a Libertarian society.

 

[Craig4]

Bob and I have had this discussion before.

As I see it, libertarianism as a philosophy denies the entire purpose of civilization and the reason that people join together into societies and cooperate to achieve things that cannot be accomplished as isolated individuals. It rejects the basis by which we are successful as a species. Look at the the progress of civilizations, inventions, science, and ideas over the sweep of history. Think about the broad human achievements of which we are most proud. How much of that would have been achieved under libertarianism?

Libertarianism as applied in practice by most of its advocates is simplier still. It comes down to "I have an inherent natural right to do anything I want to. You, on the other hand, do not." I can see its appeal...

This. Libertarianism is a philosophy for people who know they will never win and are thus shielded from the consequences of their beliefs while enjoying the benefits oh something they despise on the surface.

 

[Kid Eager]

It's a total strawman. Somalia is a failed state dominated by authoritarian hegemons. By definition, it cannot be an example of a Libertarian society.

What, then, is an example of a Libertarian society?