PETA Seeks Memorials to Cows Killed on Ill. Roads

[Wolfman]

PETA going to far?

I think not! The problem is they aren't going far enough!!

What about acknowledgement and reparations for the Cow Holocaust that's been going on for centuries! How many cows have lived and died in the equivalent of Nazi "Cow Concentration Camps"?

My proposal:

1) All "Cow Concentration Camps" (ie. farms, dairies, slaughter houses, etc.) should be closed immediately, and all living cows released to live freely, as they please

2) The heads of every government in the world that has used "Cow Concentration Camps" should issue an official acknowledgment of their heinous abuses, and make an official apology

3) All living cows whose predecessors suffered or were killed in the "Cow Concentration Camps" should receive financial compensation (subject to adequate documentation of the deaths of their predecessors, and proof of their relationship)

4) Wherever possible, the remains (steaks, hamburger, bones, guts, etc.) of those cows killed in this holocaust should be returned to their families, and the state should also pay for proper funerals and interment of the remains

5) Establish an international monument to the Cow Holocaust at the United Nations, listing the names of every person who ever ate or used a cow-derived product (meat, leather, milk, etc.); and a vow to never allow such a Holocaust to happen again

6) Award India a special Nobel Prize for its historic refusal to participate in the Cow Holocaust, going to far as to provide shelter and succor to their bovine companions, and even sacrifice their own comfort in order to ensure the cows do not suffer

This, of course, is only the beginning...once adequate precedent is established, we can go on to do the same for pigs, chickens, sheep, fish...and not stop until the day that there is an international memorial to commemorate the final end to the Earthworm Holocaust, as fishermen around the world stop using them as bait, and children are taught (upon pain of having a limb cut off) not to stomp on earthworms laying on the sidewalk.

PETA? Bunch of do-nothing moderate softies, if ya' ask me!

 

[bit_pattern]

What about acknowledgement and reparations for the Cow Holocaust that's been going on for centuries! How many cows have lived and died in the equivalent of Nazi "Cow Concentration Camps"?

I think that future generations are going to look back on this period of industrial slaughter with much the same revulsion as they look at Auschwitz and the horrors of WW2.

 

[marplots]

I think that future generations are going to look back on this period of industrial slaughter with much the same revulsion as they look at Auschwitz and the horrors of WW2.

This is good.
Because I wouldn't want my generation solving all the moral dilemmas. Those unborn future people will need something to feel good about.

It is my duty and pleasure to continue my brutal carnivore ways so that someday, some shining day, they can look down on me with disgust. This is my gift to them. Well... that, and global warming.

 

[bit_pattern]

This is good.
Because I wouldn't want my generation solving all the moral dilemmas. Those unborn future people will need something to feel good about.

It is my duty and pleasure to continue my brutal carnivore ways so that someday, some shining day, they can look down on me with disgust. This is my gift to them. Well... that, and global warming.

We have vegans to do that already in the here and now

But in all seriousness, I don't mean to moralise about my dietary choices, I really don't, it was just a reflection on the idea of a Cow Auschwitz and that while we obviously don't see it as a moral quandary that maybe in the future they will. Kind of like how we see slavery today compared to how they saw it in the 18th century.

 

[Meed]

While we're on Auschwitz, wouldn't this be a bit like someone in Nazi Germany proposing a memorial for Jews who've died in train accidents?

 

[Meed]

Thanks, I know that but I still can't find it remotely funny. It's really bad form to joke about something like that.

Este

You must be a blast at parties.

 

[sadhatter]

If animals are to be given the same rights as people, then my extension they should be given the same responsibilities. I always wonder what segment of peta gets to talk to lions, and tigers and whathave you about their brutal killing of animals.

 

[Johny2x4]

I think that future generations are going to look back on this period of industrial slaughter with much the same revulsion as they look at Auschwitz and the horrors of WW2.

With the amount of tragedies that fill the 20 and 21 century, animal slaughter is gonna be way down the bottom of things to be outraged about.

 

[marplots]

We have vegans to do that already in the here and now

But in all seriousness, I don't mean to moralise about my dietary choices, I really don't, it was just a reflection on the idea of a Cow Auschwitz and that while we obviously don't see it as a moral quandary that maybe in the future they will. Kind of like how we see slavery today compared to how they saw it in the 18th century.

Could be.
I'm a big dog fan (in both senses of the phrase) and I was aghast at how I saw dogs treated while I was in Asia. In many ways, they were livestock as much as pets (South Korea, 1980s -ish). I'm revolted when I see a dog mistreated, even if it's just what I perceive to be emotional abuse.

So I could see the whole animal rights thing taking off. But I live in the situation I'm in. I eat meat without guilt. I wouldn't eat a person or a dog though, so I'm at least part way down that road.

Maybe I'm the slave owner who doesn't beat his slaves. Or the Nazi who isn't a sadist. Still foul by definition, but not as foul as the label implies. I guess that puts me in the "reachable middle" camp for the propaganda.

 

[Irony]

I wholeheartedly agree with erecting a memorial. I suggest a stately pair of golden arches.

 

[bit_pattern]

With the amount of tragedies that fill the 20 and 21 century, animal slaughter is gonna be way down the bottom of things to be outraged about.

Only if you put human lives above those of other sentient beings, which was my point, I think in the future we're likely to have a very different set of moral values and the billions of slaughtered animals are going to far outweigh the millions of humans killed in war and genocide. I believe that it will all be viewed as part of the same inexplicably violent instincts of 20th Century humans.

 

[Kahalachan]

If it's a fee PETA is willing to pay, who cares?

This.

Just like religion, why should my money go to something I don't believe in?

If PETA wants to pay let them do it.

 

[marplots]

Do they have PETA in Norway? This would be a great spot for a monument:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/20-tons-herring-wash-norway-coast-183358564.html

 

[epepke]

We have vegans to do that already in the here and now

But in all seriousness, I don't mean to moralise about my dietary choices, I really don't, it was just a reflection on the idea of a Cow Auschwitz and that while we obviously don't see it as a moral quandary that maybe in the future they will. Kind of like how we see slavery today compared to how they saw it in the 18th century.

Cornsail had the best answer, though it came after your post and you may not have seen it:

While we're on Auschwitz, wouldn't this be a bit like someone in Nazi Germany proposing a memorial for Jews who've died in train accidents?

The idea that people might look back at factory farming with revulsion, well, maybe so. I think it would even be a good thing. Probably would require some technological advances to happen, but the first time some good products came on the market, I'd be the first in line.

The idea that cows killed on the roads are somehow related to cows killed in slaughterhouses, or that someone either now in the future might look at a person who held that idea with acquiescence, nope. It's fundamentally flawed, enough that one might much more plausibly wonder if it be caused by some cognitive defect related to a nutritional deficiency.

 

[bit_pattern]

Cornsail had the best answer, though it came after your post and you may not have seen it:

I saw it, was going to comment but got distracted, I agree wholeheartedly.

The idea that people might look back at factory farming with revulsion, well, maybe so. I think it would even be a good thing. Probably would require some technological advances to happen, but the first time some good products came on the market, I'd be the first in line.

Same here. I think there is and has been good cause to eat meat throughout human history but that today, at least for we privileged Westerners, there are plenty of other forms of more ethically suitable forms of protein. I'm under no illusions that such a shift in moral perspective would happen immediately, it will require significant technological advances before we can stop eating animals.

The idea that cows killed on the roads are somehow related to cows killed in slaughterhouses, or that someone either now in the future might look at a person who held that idea with acquiescence, nope. It's fundamentally flawed, enough that one might much more plausibly wonder if it be caused by some cognitive defect related to a nutritional deficiency.

Yes, well, it's a damned good thing no one but you has actually made such a connection because my understanding is that the reflections on the morality of Bovine Auschwitz weren't actually related to the proposed memorial, they were just an extension of the wider discussion on our relationship with animals.

 

[epepke]

I saw it, was going to comment but got distracted, I agree wholeheartedly.

Same here. I think there is and has been good cause to eat meat throughout human history but that today, at least for we privileged Westerners, there are plenty of other forms of more ethically suitable forms of protein. I'm under no illusions that such a shift in moral perspective would happen immediately, it will require significant technological advances before we can stop eating animals.

Good so far.

Yes, well, it's a damned good thing no one but you has actually made such a connection because my understanding is that the reflections on the morality of Bovine Auschwitz weren't actually related to the proposed memorial, they were just an extension of the wider discussion on our relationship with animals.

Well, perhaps you can help me here. There are two threads I've noticed about veganism recently. One is this one, which has what I think is an obviously stupid proposal by PeTA. The other was a very Poe-like comment about how vegans are superior.

Is there some reason to try to build some "wider discussion" on such particularly egregious examples of vapidity?

I don't see a lot of conspiracy theory discussions turned into serious, calm discussions of physics, let alone ones where someone accuses me of being the only person to have noticed the idiocy (as you just did).

In fact, I'd like to see and participate in a serious "wider discussion on our relationship with the animals" WITHOUT being significantly taken over, or even started with, declarations of the moral supremacy of vegans or chazzerei by PeTA or some such nonsense. Truly, it doesn't seem to happen, and what does happen gives me a sense of "good cop, bad cop" and "pay no attention to the nutcase vegans behind the curtain." Why does this not happen?

 

[bit_pattern]

Well, perhaps you can help me here. There are two threads I've noticed about veganism recently. One is this one, which has what I think is an obviously stupid proposal by PeTA. The other was a very Poe-like comment about how vegans are superior.

Is there some reason to try to build some "wider discussion" on such particularly egregious examples of vapidity?

Other than the fact we're on a discussion forum? From my perspective, I just saw a comment about Bovine Auschwitz, had a think about it, then made a remark that lead to a few replies. Nothing in that sequence of evvents had anything to do with PETA's monument. I think it is quite natural for topics to diverge from the OP when they are obviously stupid and sensationalist but actually pertain to a wider problem that touches people personally.

I don't see a lot of conspiracy theory discussions turned into serious, calm discussions of physics, let alone ones where someone accuses me of being the only person to have noticed the idiocy (as you just did).

You didn't notice any idiocy, you just made a mistake in assuming that the discussion on Auschwitz was related to the OP, when it wasn't, it might have sparked the discussion but the memorial hadn't much to do with the idea of industrial scale slaughter being on the same moral scale as Auschwitz.

In fact, I'd like to see and participate in a serious "wider discussion on our relationship with the animals" WITHOUT being significantly taken over, or even started with, declarations of the moral supremacy of vegans or chazzerei by PeTA or some such nonsense. Truly, it doesn't seem to happen, and what does happen gives me a sense of "good cop, bad cop" and "pay no attention to the nutcase vegans behind the curtain." Why does this not happen?

You could start your own thread? As to why it doesn't happen, I'd imagine that's because when you start talking about a subject that matters to somebody passionate about a certain issue then the things they are passionate about will be in a sense the moral compass they use to navigate their way through the discussion.

For instance, I don't care much for, nor know a great deal about PETA or their background, I am however interested in the moral and ethical quandary posed by the consumption of meat and the wide scale industrial slaughter of other sentient creatures. Whereas it could go the other way, you could start your thread and find PETA supporters arguing for a monument to bovine traffic accidents. Either way, you can't control the flow of debate, it happens naturally. You can either choose to participate, or not participate, complaining about the nature of the discussion isn't going to get you anywhere.

 

[Johny2x4]

Only if you put human lives above those of other sentient beings, which was my point, I think in the future we're likely to have a very different set of moral values and the billions of slaughtered animals are going to far outweigh the millions of humans killed in war and genocide. I believe that it will all be viewed as part of the same inexplicably violent instincts of 20th Century humans.

You´re must be joking...

I mean, I already thought you had a confused morality after the Auschwiz comments, but now? Damm....

Tell you what, let´s give you an AK and ship you to Somalia. Let´s see how you compare the two AFTER you spend sometime fighting for your life on a daily basis. I will gladly contribute to that.

 

[bit_pattern]

You´re must be joking...

I mean, I already thought you had a confused morality after the Auschwiz comments, but now? Damm....

Tell you what, let´s give you an AK and ship you to Somalia. Let´s see how you compare the two AFTER you spend sometime fighting for your life on a daily basis. I will gladly contribute to that.

That makes no sense to me, sorry. You're in Portugal so maybe it's a translation thing but I'm really not getting the point you are trying to make. What does not killing other sentient animals have anything to do with fighting for survival with an AK in Somalia?

 

[Johny2x4]

The fact that you compare animal slaughter to some of the worst tragedies of the XX and XXI centuries. It cheapens them and frankly it´s insulting to the peoples that have gone through them.

Maybe if you experience first hand what´s it´s like, you wouldn´t be a bit self righteous. Somalia was the first example that came to mind, but I´m sure you could be placed in an large number of true and actual tragedies to knock some sense into you.