Personal assaults on Obama

MattusMaximus said:
You know, this post got me to thinking... as far down the rabbit-hole things have gone with the birther nonsense, have we actually reached the bottom of the barrel, or will the radical right-wing go even further with their lunacy if President Obama wins re-election? What sort of craziness could top birtherism?
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As the great comedian Bill Cosby once said, "Never challenge WORSE! Never say 'Things can't get worse!"

He was right, you know.
 
Augustine said:
Article has already been linked. So he as Commander in Chief gets the credit for his decisions, directions, and authorizations (and makes sure to point them out), but the previous CinC gets no credit for his? Huh...poor leadership...
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You really seem to hate that Obama accomplished what Bush gave up on. Obama did what was right and what the people wanted. But shame on him for honestly stating the facts.

Here is what the previous CinC thinks about OBL. Why should Obama give credit to the guy who didn't care about OBL?

I give up. You have no interest in a fair impartial and honest reading of what happened. I'm okay with that. Sleep well.
 
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DavidJames said:
You really seem to hate that Obama accomplished what Bush gave up on. Obama did what was right and what the people wanted. But shame on him for honestly stating the facts.

Here is what the previous CinC thinks about OBL. Why should Obama give credit to the guy who didn't care about OBL?

I give up. You have no interest in a fair impartial and honest reading of what happened. I'm okay with that. Sleep well.
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Obama accomplished? But I thought he gave credit to the ten years of tireless work of military and counterterrorism professionals? Whose accomplishment was it again?

(Interesting use of the word "hate" - when, in another thread, Travis said Ryan was evil and the world would be better when he was dead - a remark clearly full of hate - the word " hate" was not mentioned. When I point out that the President's speech announcing US responsibility for killing Bin Laden contained some unseemly personal focus on himself, somehow I "really seem to hate"...:rolleyes:)
 
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Augustine, if the mission had failed and the SEAL team had been captured, would you be laying the blame for that on the military establishment?

Be honest, now...
 
Interesting..
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/...i-obama-navy-seals-claim-of-non-partisanship/

.. and as mentioned on another forum, SEAL Team Six was originally outed during the days of Saint Ronnie, back in 1984. I haven't seen any specific names, roles, or adresses mentioned, so what exactly are they whining about?

As for the whole "The killing should have been kept secret until we had analyzed the data"-spiel, that sort of went out the window as soon as that guy in Abbottabad started tweeting about helicopters flying low over the city.
 
Megalodon said:
Augustine, if the mission had failed and the SEAL team had been captured, would you be laying the blame for that on the military establishment?

Be honest, now...
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What do you not understand about leadership? Successes get passed on and credited to subordinates, failures get shouldered. It's why you "get paid the big bucks" - the nature of the job.
 
Leaders don't do that. Subordinates are cheated of their accomplishments in every business, as managers have to have accomplishments too and they can't both claim to have done it. Romney says government is business, so it should work that way too.

And it has, Republican presidents take sole responsibility for any success. Obama's being castigated for presidenting while non-Republican, and daring to be involved in a military victory.
 
Augustine said:
What do you not understand about leadership? Successes get passed on and credited to subordinates, failures get shouldered. It's why you "get paid the big bucks" - the nature of the job.
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Thank you for your honesty, and for showing you have no idea about leadership. You get paid to make the big decisions, that either make you or brake you. Obama got made, live with it.

Successes should get shared glory, and it happened in this case. Only a dimwit would think that an operation that resulted on an exploded helicopter could be kept a secret, so obviously the president had to come out and make the kind of speech that he did. I'm quite sure he would have preferred to wait a few months, until he could actually come out with more data, and at a more favorable moment, politically. But a) the helicopter forced his hand, and b) the right-wing insanity would go red-hot with conspiracy theories for the delay of the info release.

But maybe Obama should have made something more low profile... maybe get in a flight-suit and go greet the SEALs on the deck of an aircraft carrier...
 
Augustine said:
So he as Commander in Chief gets the credit for his decisions, directions, and authorizations (and makes sure to point them out), but the previous CinC gets no credit for his?
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He got as much credit as he deserved for taking OBL.

And again, did you suppose Obama had been in office 10 years when he made that speech? Do you think that's what he was claiming? If not, he was giving credit to the people who worked on getting OBL since September of 2001.

ETA: Exactly what do you think Obama should have said? Something like, "Thanks to the Bush administration's efforts in Baghdad we were able to get OBL ten years later. . . ."??
 
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Silly Green Monkey said:
Leaders don't do that.
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Good leaders do.

The President is being criticized for being unable to resist trumpeting his involvement in the success of the mission at the moment the success of the mission was announced and prior to crediting the subordinates who did 99% of the work. That's all. The fact that you can't acknowledge that was done or try to rationalize it is revealing.
 
Augustine said:
What do you not understand about leadership? Successes get passed on and credited to subordinates, failures get shouldered. It's why you "get paid the big bucks" - the nature of the job.
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OK, then if the mission had failed would you be calling for blame to be shared with the previous Commander in Chief? No issue of subordinates in this hypothetical. Leaders are leaders.
 
Megalodon said:
Thank you for your honesty, and for showing you have no idea about leadership. You get paid to make the big decisions, that either make you or brake you. Obama got made, live with it.

Successes should get shared glory, and it happened in this case. Only a dimwit would think that an operation that resulted on an exploded helicopter could be kept a secret, so obviously the president had to come out and make the kind of speech that he did. I'm quite sure he would have preferred to wait a few months, until he could actually come out with more data, and at a more favorable moment, politically. But a) the helicopter forced his hand, and b) the right-wing insanity would go red-hot with conspiracy theories for the delay of the info release.

But maybe Obama should have made something more low profile... maybe get in a flight-suit and go greet the SEALs on the deck of an aircraft carrier...
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I apparently know more about leadership than you do. The only thing required of the speech was to announce the success of the mission and to credit the people who accomplished it. Trumpeting his part in the decision-making or "contrasting his efforts with his predecessor" were unnecessary and unseemly - and poor leadership.

Why don't you actually go read the text of Bush's speech on the deck of the carrier? You might find an interesting contrast...
 
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Augustine said:
The President is being criticized for being unable to resist trumpeting his involvement in the success of the mission at the moment the success of the mission was announced and prior to crediting the subordinates who did 99% of the work. That's all.
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Rubbish. He's being swift-boated with a bunch of B.S.

He was also accused of disclosing the name SEAL Team Six endangering the families of members of that unit, which, of course, is a lie. (There'd even been a Wikipedia entry about them for years, for Pete's sake!)

Even the idea that it was his decision to make the public announcement is misleading. He wanted to wait, but the helicopter crash had already drawn media attention.

I suspect that if he'd kept quiet or worse denied what happened, he'd get even more criticism for that decision.
 
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Augustine said:
Trumpeting his part in the decision-making or "contrasting his efforts with his predecessor" were unnecessary and unseemly - and poor leadership.
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Wait a minute, I thought you said Obama should have credited Bush. Which is it, share credit it with his predecessor or don't mention any credit for any executive decisions?

Or is it maybe that there was absolutely nothing that Obama could have said that would make you happy because you wish it weren't Obama who oversaw the taking of OBL?
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
OK, then if the mission had failed would you be calling for blame to be shared with the previous Commander in Chief? No issue of subordinates in this hypothetical. Leaders are leaders.
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The current CinC should be willing to take 100% of the blame. "The buck stops here", right? That's what leadership is. This really is not a difficult concept. Credit is shared, responsibility is owned. I know lieutenants who can master this concept more quickly.
 
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