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Perpetual motion machine examination rules, please.

Jim_Mich said:
Good grief, you really are Dumb All Over! It would be a win win situation. Randi and the foundation would get more than a millon dollars worth of publicity and the world would get a kick start toward weaning itself away from oil.

Jim_Mich
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And not only that. You would become an instant billionaire (you patented your wheel right?) and your name would be engraved in golden letters in the history of humanity, standing side by side with the likes of Einstein and David Hasselhoff.
 
Burner said:
You would become an instant billionaire (you patented your wheel right?) and your name would be engraved in golden letters in the history of humanity, standing side by side with the likes of Einstein and David Hasselhoff.
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I feel compelled to remark again that while the latter would be guaranteed, the former would not. It doesn't seem necessary that it would be easier to extract this imaginary new unlimited energy than all the real, theoretically available, but practically inaccessible energy that is already around. It is conceivable that the hypothetical device might be so ineffective that nobody would want to buy it. And different, more effective technologies utilizing this imaginary new unlimited energy source would not necessarily be covered by the patent. Although some income would be certain (e.g. Nobel Prize), it might be less than expected.

But of course, this is all just baseless speculation at par with "what will people do if Martians land tomorrow".
 
Burner said:
And not only that. You would become an instant billionaire (you patented your wheel right?) and your name would be engraved in golden letters in the history of humanity, standing side by side with the likes of Einstein and David Hasselhoff.
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Not exactly. Patents don't make you billionares. Patents are only worth what you're willing to spend defending them. Now, if an idea is properly patented, and the idea is trully worth millions/billions of dollars, it shouldn't be too difficult to get some investors to back you.
 
Often the idea comes up about how someone could manage to benefit if they were to discover perpetual motion. It would be an astounding discover. At times the Nobel is mentioned. This is from their site.

Nomination to the Nobel Prize in Physics is by invitation only. The Nobel Committee for Physics sends confidential forms to persons who are competent and qualified to nominate. The names of the nominees and other information about the nominations cannot be revealed until 50 years later.
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If you're not nominated you won't receive the Nobel. Since 2001 $10,000,000. That would be great if you're nominated.

The 2006 recipient's of the physics award were John C. Mather and George F. Smoot. This is from wiki describing their work.

As an NRC postdoctoral fellow at the Goddard Institute for Space Studies at Columbia University, he led the proposal efforts on COBE (1974-1976). The success of COBE was the outcome of prodigious team work involving more than 1,000 researchers, engineers and other participants. John Mather coordinated the entire process and also had primary responsibility for the experiment that revealed the blackbody form of the microwave background radiation measured by COBE. George Smoot had main responsibility for measuring the small variations in the temperature of the radiation.
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Notice the date of the work and the team helping. The two won the award but they had a lot of help and it took quite a while to be recognized.

Gene
 
Thabiguy said:
I feel compelled to remark again that while the latter would be guaranteed, the former would not.
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Well if you patented the principle of extraction of this supposed new energy source and it turned out to be true, I'm fairly sure you'd recieve billions from companies who'd want to manufacture it. Presuming it's effective of course, but then perpetual motion by its definition is ubereffective innit? ;)
 
Burner said:
Well if you patented the principle of extraction of this supposed new energy source and it turned out to be true, I'm fairly sure you'd recieve billions from companies who'd want to manufacture it. Presuming it's effective of course, but then perpetual motion by its definition is ubereffective innit? ;)
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Imagine that you discover that if you form 99.9% pure arsenic into special, complex three-dimensional shape, it will start "capturing Ether Energy" and will create heat energy at the rate of 0.01 W per square meter of the outer surface. It will be able to do this forever. Which company exactly will pay billions for a license to manufacture and sell devices utilizing this technology?
 
My Dad had two patents. He never made money off the second one. His first patent was shortly before I was born. I don't believe he made any money off it either. He certainly was not wealthy when I was young.

One of the reasons the JREF is changing the MDC is because of having to deal with people with obvious mental problems. When someone has trouble communicating it's frustrating. When they cannot even think or write coherently then communication is impossible. I know; I have a brother who when he was young was brilliantly intelligent. But too many years of illegal drugs and excessive alcohol destroyed his brain. Bipolar disorder developed and he can no longer think straight. Sure his medications help some, but...

Yesterday I received a package from him with a bunch of hand drawn skrawls of one of his wild dream inventions. The thing is totally unworkable both physically and conceptually. He wants me to make CAD drawings for him and to NOT tell him it won't work. I can't even figure out his sketches so how am I to make drawings for him? Anyway this is a personal problem between brothers which I will deal with one way or another. My point is I understand why the MDC is changing the rules.

If I get a PMM to work I will send an application that would look something like the following...
Application for the James Randi Educational Foundation’s One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge
A Gravity and Inertia Powered Perpetual Motion Machine.
Thursday, March 15, 2007

Dear Mr. Randi and/or assistant,

It is my understanding that perpetual motion wheels are eligible for the James Randi Educational Foundation’s Million Dollar Challenge as they would be considered a paranormal claim because it is assumed they must violate Newton's laws of motion.

I claim I can demonstrate a perpetual motion wheel that turns continually after being given an initial push start. It produces a small continuous output of rotational work energy. It will run continuously until stopped by applying a work load that is more than it can handle in a same manner as an internal combustion engine can be stalled by applying a large work load. The rotational output power is limited but large enough to overcome all friction and provide excess output that is measurable by suitable means. One such means could be a simple Prony brake attached to the output shaft of the wheel or the lifting of weights by the output shaft. The machine is open and all components fully visible. The construction of the machine is moderately simple. It is in the form of a 6-1/2 foot wheel made primarily from particle board mounted on an axle shaft supported by bearings on each end which rest on an open wood frame. All the components of the machine are mounted onto the faces of the wheel so that they are all out in the open and observable. The components consist of weights on the ends of levers that swing with nylon cord used to interconnect the weights. There are simple extension springs attached to the levers. These springs provide temporary storage of kinetic energy each time the levers swing. They do not provide any pre-stored motive power for the wheel. There is a latching system that controls the swinging of the levers. There is nothing hidden. There are no batteries or motors.

The machine may be run as long as desired. Mechanical failure is always a possibility. Mechanical failure should not be considered a test failure if the machine can be repaired and tested again. I would leave it up to JREF to offer a reasonable maximum length of time duration for the test. It is my belief that after careful examination of the wheel and observing it working there would be no need for an excessively long test period. The test may be concluded at anytime JREF decides that longer testing is not needed. The machine may be disassembled and inspected after tests are run if so desired, preferably in a non-destructive manner by removing assembly bolts, etc.

I have an understanding and some theories as to where the excess energy of the wheel comes from. I needed this understanding in order to design and build the wheel. I also understand JREF is not interested in knowing why something happens, but only in a provable demonstration. I assure you there is no fraud involved and that the wheel acts as an engine powered solely by gravity and inertial forces developed by the swinging motion of the wheel's weights. If asked I will attempt to explain after the testing how and why the wheel works.

I make one humble request. I would like the examination to be conducted on a date very soon after I have filed for a patent. This date can be coordinated between me and the JREF. This is to protect my intellectual property rights. Since the US Patent and Trademark Office frowns on perpetual motion claims the writing of the patent and drafting of the drawings will be done very carefully, which may take considerably more time than with more normal inventions.

I would prefer to be tested in my resident state of Michigan but I'm prepared to transport my wheel to anywhere in the USA if need be.

Since public demonstration and offering of an invention for sale before filing for a patent has certain legal ramifications it must be clearly understood that I am in no way offering to sell the wheel nor any rights to the wheel invention to the JREF or to anyone at this time. The demonstration is to be considered a research project between the JREF and myself and both may freely use all data that is gathered during the demonstration, which will not take place until after a patent application is filed with the US PTO.

If there are any questions or need for more information or any clarification I may be reached at the following:

(Full name, address, email and phone number)

My internet 'handle' is Jim_Mich
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Jim_Mich said:
If I get a PMM to work I will send an application that would look something like the following...
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Your text here is a good start for the claim letter, not the application. You will find the application form, and all the instructions about how to apply, on the JREF website. Be sure that you read and understand the entire application and also the challenge FAQ.

Your claim letter has some weak points that should be resolved. If you read rule 1 and rule 12 of the challenge, you will find that the claim letter needs to address three main things: 1. what will be demonstrated (your text more or less says that), 2. what are the limits of the demonstration, i.e. under what circumstances will the wheel operate (there are some hints in your text, but very vague; you should be much more specific about the necessary conditions for the experiment), 3. what exactly will constitute a successful demonstration and what will constitute a failure (you don't address this at all; you will definitely need to fix this). And, as per rule 12, you should be able to put this into a brief, 2-paragraph description.

Also, you don't send your application to Randi, but to Jeff Wagg. And enclosing 3 affidavits would be recommended. You should really, really read the FAQ, carefully.

This will work till the end of March. Starting with April, new rules will apply that we don't know yet, but apparently you will be required to have a media profile and academic endorsement in order to apply. Also it appears, from what I understand, that you'll be eligible for a preliminary test even without a media profile and academic endorsement, but not by JREF, but by a local sceptic group (I could be wrong about this; new rules should make this clear).
 
The application is nothing more than a notoriized copy of the JREF MDC rules which must be mailed to the foundation. This would be no problem.

The claim part will need some work.

I think the affidavits are only needed if requested?

Jim_MIch
 
Horse before cart, except after ...?

I think you put the horse before the cart so you can push the cart. Whoever is trying to move a load figures out the details.

Gene
 
Thabiguy said:
Imagine that you discover that if you form 99.9% pure arsenic into special, complex three-dimensional shape, it will start "capturing Ether Energy" and will create heat energy at the rate of 0.01 W per square meter of the outer surface. It will be able to do this forever. Which company exactly will pay billions for a license to manufacture and sell devices utilizing this technology?
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Lies. That could power my cellphone. Way ergonomic too. :)
 
Thabiguy,

That is a good idea. One should have three credible people that they can trust willing to look at the machine and give a written opinion. In an area like Houston that's no problem. There are quite a few around Nasa 1.

Gene
 
Jim_Mich said:
Ether Energy is very complex. It is the building material or raw energy of the universe. Our world is but vibrations within the Ether Energy world. We are just an image composed of Ether Energy.
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Thing, there is no way that I can sort out and post all the anecdotal evidence that I have. Here is a list. It is a list of the folder names on my computer. Each of my folders contain something that I found unusually. If you do an internet search you can probably find the same information. Some of the file names are not very descriptive of the file contents. When I first started searching I didn't keep good records. There was information on a few websites around 1997 that I've never been able to find again. They dealt mostly with vibrational calculations of elements.

Sorry, but I just don't have time to sort things out and piece them together for you. None of these unusual events or concepts point directly to Ether Energy being the raw energy of the universe. Instead a pattern seems to emerge from all of them put together.

I'm sure some of these are pure bunk while some may hold elements of truth.
Searl, GravityPush ,Tapping ZPE, Adams, Paradigm Shift, Magnetic, Hubbard, Hamster Cage Motor, Tesla, Moray, Gravity Gate, Sweet, Ray D, N Machine, Hans Coler, Coil Cap, Gaston Plante, Hendershot, Capacitor Flow, Mag Flow, Faraday, Griggs, Field Gen, Perpetual Light, CaduceusCoil, Gravity Device, R Johnson Motor, Toroid, Hyde, Gary (HarperMag), Brown-Ecklin, Correa, Sandy Kidd, Aspden, Russian, E V Gray, Marinov, Cook, Costa, Perrigo, Jenson, Rodin, T Brown, David Swenson, Quantum Science, Wilshurst, Electrostatic Generator, Earth's Electricity, Cater, Solar Generator, Prentice, Ecklin, Meyer, Bearden, ATree, Shumovsky, Newman, Francoeur, Wuerth, MEG, Priore, Wittaker, Electric Distribution, Genesis Project, Leedskalnin, H Johnson, Bedini, TransWorld, Negative Resistor, Magnetic Info, RexResearch, Time Energy Pump, LaFonte, Kunel, Muller, EBattery, Grebennikov, Dragone, Phase Conjugate Mirror, Vortex, MiniRomag, Perreault, Methernitha, Russ, Russell, Tewari, Finsrud, Metoz, Orffyreus Bessler, Lutec
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Jim_Mich
 
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