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Perpetual motion machine examination rules, please.

I often subscribe to threads that I find interesting, as I did this one.

I did a little quick math, and found that ‘I am here’ spent 13 minutes posting from (my local time, US EST) 3:47pm to 4:00pm on Dec. 13th, and then spent 1 hour and 15 minutes posting between 12:20am and 1:35am on Dec. 14th. 22 total posts, 18 on the PMD. A total of 1 hour and 28 minutes.

I found the discussions well worth it, but I’m bailing on this thread. Then again, I might stick around until the end of the day to see what ‘I am here’ has to say when he comes rushing home after getting off the school bus, and gets permission from his parents to get online for a few minutes before he does his homework.
 
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I hesitate to add anything to this thread because I think the existing posts have pretty much covered the issues.

I do have a question for "I am here" though. Is it your claim that your device creates more energy than it consumes? For instance, do you claim that the heat generated by the motion of the fan will exceed the total of all the energy supplied by whatever energy sources you have inside your device?

The term perpetual motion machine can be a bit misleading. For instance the dipping bird in the picture posted by Psiload would not qualify as a perpetual motion machine because even though it will run for a very long time, it does in fact consume more energy than is required to move the bird up and down. Undoubtedly Psiload will be disapointed to hear this. He was probably already starting to spend his million dollar prize.
 
I am here. said:
In the unofficial FAQ which is somewhere in this forum I noticed that it said something to the effect of, "perpetual motion machines have been found to be borderline paranormal" or something like that in the section where it describes what's considered paranormal for the purposes of the challenge (listed are things like telepathy, TK, dowsing, etc.).
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Since you have read the Unofficial FAQ, I'm sure you remember the line at the top which states "Whenever this document and an official JREF spokesman are in conflict, the official spokesman wins." Here, "official spokesman" means any words posted in an official manner, such as the Official FAQ.

The Official FAQ should be considered something which trumps the Unofficial FAQ. Please do not use the Unofficial FAQ to justify your views.
 
davefoc said:
I hesitate to add anything to this thread because I think the existing posts have pretty much covered the issues.

I do have a question for "I am here" though. Is it your claim that your device creates more energy than it consumes? For instance, do you claim that the heat generated by the motion of the fan will exceed the total of all the energy supplied by whatever energy sources you have inside your device?

The term perpetual motion machine can be a bit misleading. For instance the dipping bird in the picture posted by Psiload would not qualify as a perpetual motion machine because even though it will run for a very long time, it does in fact consume more energy than is required to move the bird up and down. Undoubtedly Psiload will be disapointed to hear this. He was probably already starting to spend his million dollar prize.
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Dammit! Dammit! Dammit!

Ok... how about if I seal my bird up inside of a cardboard box and attach a pointer to the bird which sticks out the side of the box? Than I'll make up some horsepucky about how nobody is allowed to look inside the box because the illuminati or the reptoids will steal my idea and harness it's power to subjugate the Earth? As long as the pointer keeps moving... voila!... perpetual motion! I get my million smackers and I can pay off the note on the Lamborghini Diablo I bought last week.

That's reasonable? No?
 
I am here. said:
It is a secret after all. I intend to capitalize on it. If everyone knows how to build one then I sacrifice my monopoly. I have little faith in the strength of patents. While they have been useful in the past, this piece of technology is a long way from a special drill bit or napkin folder.
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I've been thinking about this for a while, and I have to say that's a really selfish attitude.

We're relying on fossil fuels to maintain civilization. The supply of fossil fuels is limited, and things are going to get worse and worse as demand increases and supply gets tighter. People are fighting and dying right now due to the lack of perpetual motion machines.

If you've got a working system, then we all need you to get it into mass-production as soon as possible. Maybe you won't get the maximum possible amount of money, but you'll gain worldwide respect as a benefactor of humanity. That's something you can't buy for any amount of money, not even a million dollars.
 
ChaosEngineer said:
I've been thinking about this for a while, and I have to say that's a really selfish attitude.

We're relying on fossil fuels to maintain civilization. The supply of fossil fuels is limited, and things are going to get worse and worse as demand increases and supply gets tighter. People are fighting and dying right now due to the lack of perpetual motion machines.

If you've got a working system, then we all need you to get it into mass-production as soon as possible. Maybe you won't get the maximum possible amount of money, but you'll gain worldwide respect as a benefactor of humanity. That's something you can't buy for any amount of money, not even a million dollars.
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Not only is it selfish, it could be argued that it would THE most selfish act ever perpetrated by any single human during the entire history of mankind. Were I.A.H. really to have stumbled upon actual PM, but refused to share it with the world out of simple personal greed, and then went and got himself hit by a bus on the way home from the comic shop... well, now that would be a serious bummer. Even worse than that Twilight Zone were Burgess Meredith breaks his glasses.
 
I get the feeling that we might not be seeing much more of our PM machine designer.

All of you tedious skeptics keep insulting him by asking all these pesky questions!
 
I get the feeling that we might not be seeing much more of our PM machine designer.

All of you tedious skeptics keep insulting him by asking all these pesky questions!
 
I get the feeling that we might not be seeing much more of our PM machine designer.

All of you tedious skeptics keep insulting him by asking all these pesky questions!
 
I get the feeling that we might not be seeing much more of our PM machine designer.

All of you tedious skeptics keep insulting him by asking all these pesky questions!
 
AnotherSillyAlias said:
I get the feeling that we might not be seeing much more of our PM machine designer.

All of you tedious skeptics keep insulting him by asking all these pesky questions!
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Forget the perpetual motion machine, how about sharing that time machine you've got. Looks like it stuck you in a time loop there ;)
 
Makes you wonder about the crediability of the general public, if they can be so shocked that we want to know some simple things about their claim. Many cannot even grasp the 'how will you demonstrate' part. Are they so used to their claims being taken at face value?
 
Something weird is going on, I just saw a triple post from somebody in another thread.

The server is not well today it seems.
 
fowlsound said:
Anywhere but the JREF forum, apparently.

When faced with calls for evidence and logical discourse, I Am Here has fled back to the 8th grade study hall.

What a surprise.
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Since Devil's Advocate doesn't seem to be around, I'll suggest some other possibilities:

1. He has seen the sound reason in filing a patent first, and is busy doing such.

2. He has now learned exactly what proof of a perpetual motion machine requires, and is busy preparing his box for such a test.

Oh, I should also point out that a single system with positive energy output is not necessarily enough to satisfy the world's energy needs. If its output over consumption is 1 watt per 10,000 years, it's going to take a LOT of such machines to meet that need :)
 
ChaosEngineer said:
I've been thinking about this for a while, and I have to say that's a really selfish attitude.
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Maybe, it's not so selfish. A device that could create more energy than it uses has the potential for some very significant consequences, some of which aren't all that good.

First of course would be massive economic disruption as massive industries are made obsolete overnight.

But pretty soon somebody would notice the potential for this thing to used as a weapon. The energy gained could be used to build more boxes which would then produce more energy that could be used to make more or bigger boxes until a vast heat source has been developed from a seed of almost nothing. This could be a terrorist tool without parallel. Just toss one of these little babies onto the polar ice cap and all of a sudden anybody not living on high ground is in a world of hurt.

So, perhaps, "I am here" is making the ultimate sacrifice, bypassing fame and fortune for the good of humaity.
 
:D

Bloke, please, dont be worried, if you have this amazing device breaking established science law, man, you'll be incredibly popular. Forget the million. Imagine billions. Imagine having your name in history forever like einstein...or newton...Sagan!!!!!

Imagine being the new khult figure in science! your name on so many magazines and so many tv appearances.

Why on earth do you care if they see the device and totally scrutinize it?? that will completely validate your idea and prove it more so. So called EXPERTS will comment on your incredible new techniques unfounded before this time. You will be incredibly rewarded in so many ways.

apply!
 
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