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Perpetual Energy

baldrick said:


Everything has a shelf life. Scientific laws are no different.

P.s. I've changed my name (as I am sure you will see)
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Nonsense. Scientific discovery remains valid until new information is found that requires revision. Try to live with this: The laws of thermodynamics have not, repeat NOT, been revised.

You believe you have found a method for perpetual motion. Perpetual motion violates the laws of thermodynamics. Now you have two ways to go:

1) Prove your idea theoretically

2) Prove your idea in practice (and let others worry about the theory)

Boths will result in a revision of the laws of thermodynamics. Both will make you eternally famous and, probably very rich.

Oh, and there is a third possibility (they say there always is) :

3) Find out that you are wrong, go on with your life and be happy.

Those were the rational possibilities. Unfortunately, by the sound of you, you will chose the fourth possibility:

4) Doggedly go on believing you are right, and continue to pester us, ignoring all rational arguments.

Hans :rolleyes:

(edited for some typographical finesse)
 
Everything has a shelf life. Scientific laws are no different.
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I don't agree with this. At some point we come across fundamental laws that will never be overturned - I'm not saying this one is, but it could be. I think it is a mistake to assume that every scientific theory we have is destined to be replaced.

I think it is a HUGE mistake to think that this particular scientific law will be replaced by YOU.

Jeff
 
Humor IS a redeeming quality for shure :)

Edited to add:
A turnip-powered perpetual energy machine!!!
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Methinks this belongs in the fart thread.



Hans
 
baldrick said:


The thing that you seem to overlook is that science is evolving constantly. Every time someone finds a new discovery, then the laws of physics are changed. For example Einstein overthrew Galileo's theory of space-time, and created laws equasions such as e=mc2, which are now widely accepted (although I hear that some scientists are questioning e=mc2)
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Those 'new discoveries' were examined minutely and tested unto exhaustion until they were found to be based on sound science. And most of them were found to be extensions/refinements of previous concepts. Some came to light because of new technologies in investigative science. Large percentages of them had been logically postulated for long periods of time.

With the preceding held firmly in mind, "I got something new; can't tell ya what it is, but gimme lotza money anyway and I'll prove it/show ya later" ain't gonna cut the mustard. :confused:
 
baldrick said:

I havn't actually built the machine yet, because I need funding.
The machine itself will cost less than £500 to make, but then you've got the cost of flying to America to qualify for the $1,000,000. I am not looking for investors though.
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OK, do this then. Build the machine. Talk a loan out on your house or use credit cards. Then apply for the challenge.
How it usually works is that JREF finds a local partner in your own country to give you a "prelimanary" test. It's not the formal test for the million just the first step. This part of the test should be of minimal extra cost.
You should be able to pass this easily. When you pass the first step I will wire you all the funds it took to build the machine up to $2,000 USD. This will be grant money and you will in no way be obligated to me whatsoever.

Then, if after passing this preliminary test in your home country, you are required to travel to the US for the formal challenge I will pay all the travel expenses, airfare, hotel, meals and security for two people for up to 30 days of travel. Again, acceptance of this offer in no way obligates you to me in any way whatsoever and I will sign any documents to that effect.

Sound good? Then start building.
 
arcticpenguin: There's a doozy of a plan for a perpetual motion machine described today in Bob Park's What's New column. Check it out.
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I especially liked their notion of hanging a "wind-turbine" outside the glider to recapture the potential energy. What a hoot. I've heard of similar notions for a car that uses no energy - just mount a "wind turbine" on the roof to power the electric motors for the wheels.

I try to get people to do the numbers (do the math) before they spend lots of money experimenting with hardware. They look at me like I'm from another planet.

One guy, who was planning to convert his car to run on water (electicity from the alternator splits the water into H and O, which then burns in the converted engine), was convinced that it was strictly an engineering problem. He didn't want to hear my comments about the numbers not working out. He had no idea what hydorgen flow rate would be needed, nor how much electricity it would take to generate that much hydrogen flow. But he sure did know about Galileo being ridiculed for his ideas.

What would we do without the scientific illiterate? :D
 
I have already patentented the Soapy Sam Clockwork Time Machine and Perpetual Powerplant. Any violation of the patent will result in legal action.
The working model is currently in Beijing in 142BC undergoing testing.
The basic operating principle is the timespring. One end is anchored in the past. As the machine moves into the future, the spring becomes stretched, gathering temporal energy. This is used to rewind the mechanism, providing power to send the machine up the timestream. This sending up procedure is fundamental to chronoenergetic research.

I find it hard to see why you deluded people do not understand this.
By the way , the patents are on public view in the US Patent office in 2230AD. This is a matter of public record. If you can't be bothered to check it, don't blame me.
 
I'm doing the maths for my Perpetual-Energy machine prototype and I need some help please.

Ok, say you had a normal electric generator, the faster the coil moves, the higher the voltage produced.

Am I right in thinking that the speed of the coil turning wouldn't affect the Wattage?
 
baldrick said:
I'm doing the maths for my Perpetual-Energy machine prototype and I need some help please.

I'd be delighted. I'd appreciate a mention in your final papers under "acknowledgements". I don't want money, got money, want appreciation ;).

Ok, say you had a normal electric generator, the faster the coil moves, the higher the voltage produced.

Provided a constant stator field, and provided output is not limited by load, correct.

Am I right in thinking that the speed of the coil turning wouldn't affect the Wattage?

See below...
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Depends on what you mean by wattage.

If the load is constant (constant resistance), then power putput will rise with the square of the output voltage, and since the output voltage is (roughly) proportional to the rotational speed, putput power will be proportional to the rotational speed squared.

However, the output of a generator depends on the input energy. So if the input energy is constant, the putput energy will be too. Thus the energy source turning the generator will be unable to turn it faster than corresponding the an output power equal to the input power minus losses.

Hope this helps.

Hans
 
On second thought, I fear we are heading for some confusion here. I may be wrong, but I suspect we need a bit of clarification here on force, power, and energy.

In any rotational device, we have two forces: Torque and rotational speed.

Those two forces multiply into the power of the device (wheter it supplies or recieves power). Power is measured in horsepower or watts.

If we supply (or use) a certain power for a certain time, we have supplied (or used) energy. Energy is measured in Watt-seconds or Joule.

In electrical power, the forces are current and voltage.

Hans
 
xouper mentioned Bob Park's What's New weekly newsletter. A few months ago, he had this:
Machines that violate the First Law of Thermodynamics are not new, they are perpetual (WN 5 Apr 02). A sharp-eyed WN reader spotted a classic on ebay. This fully-portable generator is described as a 3 cubic foot "black box" (what else?) with three standard 120-volt electrical outlets to plug home appliances into. It will generate 700 watts continuously...forever. Or so it says. This is not some wild claim about zero-point energy or anti-gravity; the device simply uses an electric motor to spin an alternator that supplies the power to drive the motor. I know, you’re going to say the alternator can’t possibly supply enough power to run the motor plus a bunch of appliances. But a schematic shows the inventor thought about that – a bicycle chain connects the motor to FIVE alternators. That should do it.
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Has anyone ever tried to fake a PM device by concealing a power source in it, you know, something that runs on battery or fuel just long enough to convince the buyers?
 
gnome said:
Has anyone ever tried to fake a PM device by concealing a power source in it, you know, something that runs on battery or fuel just long enough to convince the buyers?
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I remember reading about somebody who had compressed air valves built into the floor beneath his device. Don't recall names or details.
 
I know, you’re going to say the alternator can’t possibly supply enough power to run the motor plus a bunch of appliances. But a schematic shows the inventor thought about that – a bicycle chain connects the motor to FIVE alternators. That should do it.
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That is hilarious.

Here is a good story about a farmer / geeky friend of mine. Buddy figured it would be handy to build a platform that carried a five horse gas motor an old automotive alternator and a battery. This would be used for running things and boosting the combine and such. So he built it. He laughs about how when he started the motor, revved it out, and switched the dead battery into the mix the engine stalled. It seems five horse power wasn't enough to run the alternator under load.

Five alternators. Wow. :roll:
 
baldrick said:

I was looking at some Perpetual Energy websites, and someone has already thought of the same idea as me and they said it will work, but there would be engineering difficulties, so I've had to make some minor alterations to my machine.
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Since the concept isn't new, and isn't secret, how about discussing it?

It's merits and potential weak points can then be discussed.

-Bill
 
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