Ed Pentagon - TruthMakesPeace

[ElMondoHummus]

You really need to list them because all of the evidence points to one thing. A 757, identified as American Airlines flight 77 took off from Dulles at 8:20am from gate D26. We have the hand-written statements from the air traffic controllers who handled the plane from taxi to take-off, backed up by the real-time audio for them.

The plane was lost to air traffic controllers (transponder turned off) in the vicinity of the Ohio/KY/WV border. We have their statements and audio as well. Although not visible on ATC screens, we have unbroken radar coverage of that plane from a number of Air Route Surveillance Radars (ARSR) along the way back to the Dulles area where it was again picked up by Dulles controllers. They brought it to Reagan air controllers attention who tracked it all the way to the Pentagon on their radar. We have data from four local Approach Control Radars and two ARSR's to support that. We have their statements and real-time audio.

Reagan diverted a C-130 to identify and track the aircraft, which the pilot (real-time audio) identified as a 757. It was then picked up by two Arlington County Police Officers and we have their identification on the ACPD dispatch audio (American Airlines). They watch the plane descend into the Pentagon area, where it is picked up by approximately 100 documented eyewitnesses who saw the plane go into the Pentagon.

Not one iota of data to support that it was a cruise missile. Not one eyewitness or other data (radar, air traffic controller, pilot of other planes in the area, etc) to indicate that the plane went past the Pentagon.

Yes, some amateur sleuths cherry-picked some eyewitnesses who saw the plane hit the Pentagon, but made the error of using only witnesses from the north side of the path. This naturally skewed the path to the north in their area. They did something similar to the west of the Sheraton and skewed the path south in that area. That is what happens when you cherry-pick witnesses. However, normal population behavior with results based on location of the witnesses rather than the location of the plane. Even with this abnormal witness set, they all agree the plane impacted the Pentagon.

The physical damage at the Pentagon is consistent with such an impact, and the debris field corresponds to the angular impact. The debris cloud is captured on radar by the DCA ASR, and it too is consistent with the angular impact and wind patterns. Location of body part (yes, parts, not bodies) recovery is also consistent with the impact and angular impact (human flesh found by the gate house which took the infamous video footage).

So if you have strong evidence for anything other than flight 77 hitting the Pentagon, I would sure like to hear it because after 5 years of research, I sure have not seen it.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

You really need to list them because all of the evidence points to one thing. A 757, identified as American Airlines flight 77 took off from Dulles at 8:20am from gate D26. We have the hand-written statements from the air traffic controllers who handled the plane from taxi to take-off, backed up by the real-time audio for them.

The plane was lost to air traffic controllers (transponder turned off) in the vicinity of the Ohio/KY/WV border. We have their statements and audio as well. Although not visible on ATC screens, we have unbroken radar coverage of that plane from a number of Air Route Surveillance Radars (ARSR) along the way back to the Dulles area where it was again picked up by Dulles controllers. They brought it to Reagan air controllers attention who tracked it all the way to the Pentagon on their radar. We have data from four local Approach Control Radars and two ARSR's to support that. We have their statements and real-time audio.

Reagan diverted a C-130 to identify and track the aircraft, which the pilot (real-time audio) identified as a 757. It was then picked up by two Arlington County Police Officers and we have their identification on the ACPD dispatch audio (American Airlines). They watch the plane descend into the Pentagon area, where it is picked up by approximately 100 documented eyewitnesses who saw the plane go into the Pentagon.

Not one iota of data to support that it was a cruise missile. Not one eyewitness or other data (radar, air traffic controller, pilot of other planes in the area, etc) to indicate that the plane went past the Pentagon.

Yes, some amateur sleuths cherry-picked some eyewitnesses who saw the plane hit the Pentagon, but made the error of using only witnesses from the north side of the path. This naturally skewed the path to the north in their area. They did something similar to the west of the Sheraton and skewed the path south in that area. That is what happens when you cherry-pick witnesses. However, normal population behavior with results based on location of the witnesses rather than the location of the plane. Even with this abnormal witness set, they all agree the plane impacted the Pentagon.

The physical damage at the Pentagon is consistent with such an impact, and the debris field corresponds to the angular impact. The debris cloud is captured on radar by the DCA ASR, and it too is consistent with the angular impact and wind patterns. Location of body part (yes, parts, not bodies) recovery is also consistent with the impact and angular impact (human flesh found by the gate house which took the infamous video footage).

So if you have strong evidence for anything other than flight 77 hitting the Pentagon, I would sure like to hear it because after 5 years of research, I sure have not seen it.

Thanks BCR. That's it.

Can we please all go home now?

 

[twinstead]

So if you have strong evidence for anything other than flight 77 hitting the Pentagon, I would sure like to hear it because after 5 years of research, I sure have not seen it.

cicorp's definition of "strong evidence" is "finding perceived anomalies in the common narrative which may or may not be suspicious or even true, and then using those 'anomalies' to cast doubt on the theory that has the most evidence behind it to further an ideological agenda a-la the 'God of the Gaps' arguments that creationists use".

Hey. Tomayto, tomahto.

 

[Sabretooth]

You really need to list them because all of the evidence points to one thing. A 757, identified as American Airlines flight 77 took off from Dulles at 8:20am from gate D26. We have the hand-written statements from the air traffic controllers who handled the plane from taxi to take-off, backed up by the real-time audio for them.

The plane was lost to air traffic controllers (transponder turned off) in the vicinity of the Ohio/KY/WV border. We have their statements and audio as well. Although not visible on ATC screens, we have unbroken radar coverage of that plane from a number of Air Route Surveillance Radars (ARSR) along the way back to the Dulles area where it was again picked up by Dulles controllers. They brought it to Reagan air controllers attention who tracked it all the way to the Pentagon on their radar. We have data from four local Approach Control Radars and two ARSR's to support that. We have their statements and real-time audio.

Reagan diverted a C-130 to identify and track the aircraft, which the pilot (real-time audio) identified as a 757. It was then picked up by two Arlington County Police Officers and we have their identification on the ACPD dispatch audio (American Airlines). They watch the plane descend into the Pentagon area, where it is picked up by approximately 100 documented eyewitnesses who saw the plane go into the Pentagon.

Not one iota of data to support that it was a cruise missile. Not one eyewitness or other data (radar, air traffic controller, pilot of other planes in the area, etc) to indicate that the plane went past the Pentagon.

Yes, some amateur sleuths cherry-picked some eyewitnesses who saw the plane hit the Pentagon, but made the error of using only witnesses from the north side of the path. This naturally skewed the path to the north in their area. They did something similar to the west of the Sheraton and skewed the path south in that area. That is what happens when you cherry-pick witnesses. However, normal population behavior with results based on location of the witnesses rather than the location of the plane. Even with this abnormal witness set, they all agree the plane impacted the Pentagon.

The physical damage at the Pentagon is consistent with such an impact, and the debris field corresponds to the angular impact. The debris cloud is captured on radar by the DCA ASR, and it too is consistent with the angular impact and wind patterns. Location of body part (yes, parts, not bodies) recovery is also consistent with the impact and angular impact (human flesh found by the gate house which took the infamous video footage).

So if you have strong evidence for anything other than flight 77 hitting the Pentagon, I would sure like to hear it because after 5 years of research, I sure have not seen it.

I'm with El and Gord...

 

[BCR]

Why thank ya fellars

 

[NoahFence]

After your post, they'll be in epic bail mode.

Well done!

 

[Oystein]

You really need to list them because all of the evidence points to one thing. A 757, identified as American Airlines flight 77 took off from Dulles at 8:20am from gate D26. We have the hand-written statements from the air traffic controllers who handled the plane from taxi to take-off, backed up by the real-time audio for them.

The plane was lost to air traffic controllers (transponder turned off) in the vicinity of the Ohio/KY/WV border. We have their statements and audio as well. Although not visible on ATC screens, we have unbroken radar coverage of that plane from a number of Air Route Surveillance Radars (ARSR) along the way back to the Dulles area where it was again picked up by Dulles controllers. They brought it to Reagan air controllers attention who tracked it all the way to the Pentagon on their radar. We have data from four local Approach Control Radars and two ARSR's to support that. We have their statements and real-time audio.

Reagan diverted a C-130 to identify and track the aircraft, which the pilot (real-time audio) identified as a 757. It was then picked up by two Arlington County Police Officers and we have their identification on the ACPD dispatch audio (American Airlines). They watch the plane descend into the Pentagon area, where it is picked up by approximately 100 documented eyewitnesses who saw the plane go into the Pentagon.

Not one iota of data to support that it was a cruise missile. Not one eyewitness or other data (radar, air traffic controller, pilot of other planes in the area, etc) to indicate that the plane went past the Pentagon.

Yes, some amateur sleuths cherry-picked some eyewitnesses who saw the plane hit the Pentagon, but made the error of using only witnesses from the north side of the path. This naturally skewed the path to the north in their area. They did something similar to the west of the Sheraton and skewed the path south in that area. That is what happens when you cherry-pick witnesses. However, normal population behavior with results based on location of the witnesses rather than the location of the plane. Even with this abnormal witness set, they all agree the plane impacted the Pentagon.

The physical damage at the Pentagon is consistent with such an impact, and the debris field corresponds to the angular impact. The debris cloud is captured on radar by the DCA ASR, and it too is consistent with the angular impact and wind patterns. Location of body part (yes, parts, not bodies) recovery is also consistent with the impact and angular impact (human flesh found by the gate house which took the infamous video footage).

So if you have strong evidence for anything other than flight 77 hitting the Pentagon, I would sure like to hear it because after 5 years of research, I sure have not seen it.

# oysteinbookmark

 

[George 152]

Rumsfeld was a naval aviator in the 1950's. They have a very strict policy about "No man left behind". They kinda live by it. (Al la USAF Captain Scott O'Grady, June 2nd, 1995 over Bosnia)

What was he supposed to do when people were injured and dying all around him? Go back to his desk?

Come on. Don't be so obtuse.

Evidently the 'truthers' have a different morality to the rest of us who find nothing strange in the quiet heroics of the ordinary person in a disaster.

 

[BCR]

Evidently the 'truthers' have a different morality to the rest of us who find nothing strange in the quiet heroics of the ordinary person in a disaster.

I would recommend reading Firefight to anyone who thinks something strange about Rummy going outside. I've gone through the Naval and Army history interviews of the people in the Pentagon after the event. Having done so, I am very proud of the men and women in uniform who were survivors of the attack, not victims. While most people would run away from such horror, many of these ran towards it. One of the firefighters biggest problems initially was keeping people from going in to rescue their fallen.

I would note that when you read April Gallop's CMH interview, she comes across as a victim, not a survivor. But such were rare at the Pentagon.

 

[Craig4]

Here's a short little video from twenty minutes after the "impact". The conclusion is crystal clear for every astute observer before any CIT investigation was started: No 757 hit the Pentagon. People were fooled.


Deal with it.

Did you mean to use this video? You just showed us a video of the Pentagon after a plane was flown into it.

 

[Craig4]

You folks sure are dedicated to getting to the truth. I made a few posts, came back after dinner, and there is a new thread named after me, with 2 pages already. Plus I'm accused of not showing up.

The Pentagon is the biggest mystery to me, and the closest 9/11 site to home. I see strong evidence for several theories, but am not taking sides yet. There may be a theory no one has thought of yet, that explains everything. That's why I'm at JREF, to get more information and discuss ideas.

Typical truther (or liar same thing). What I find really offensive is how people like you have turned a very serious topic and national tragedy into a meaningless hobby for your own amusement. Your "work" is so abysmally shoddy that the we can dismiss the idea you're a bunch of crusaders for truth. Stick with UFO's this topic deserves better than you.

 

[dafydd]

Did you mean to use this video? You just showed us a video of the Pentagon after a plane was flown into it.

That's what it shows. These truthers are past masters at shooting themselves in the foot. They don't appear to be very smart.

 

[triforcharity]

Evidently the 'truthers' have a different morality to the rest of us who find nothing strange in the quiet heroics of the ordinary person in a disaster.

They se think that everyone else is a ******* coward!

Bunch of pansy asses. They would have been the chump trompling over women and children to get to the lifeboats on the Titanic.

**** em.

(Sorry, long day, hate truthers.)

 

[dafydd]

They se think that everyone else is a ******* coward!

Bunch of pansy asses. They would have been the chump trompling over women and children to get to the lifeboats on the Titanic.

**** em.

(Sorry, long day, hate truthers.)

And then claiming that the disaster was a NWO put up job.

 

[dafydd]

You folks sure are dedicated to getting to the truth. I made a few posts, came back after dinner, and there is a new thread named after me, with 2 pages already. Plus I'm accused of not showing up.

The Pentagon is the biggest mystery to me, and the closest 9/11 site to home. I see strong evidence for several theories, but am not taking sides yet. There may be a theory no one has thought of yet, that explains everything. That's why I'm at JREF, to get more information and discuss ideas.

And to entertain us. You get to feel important,we can have a giggle,everyone is a winner.

 

[dafydd]

Typical truther (or liar same thing). What I find really offensive is how people like you have turned a very serious topic and national tragedy into a meaningless hobby for your own amusement. Your "work" is so abysmally shoddy that the we can dismiss the idea you're a bunch of crusaders for truth. Stick with UFO's this topic deserves better than you.

The very existence of truthers is an insult to the victims and their families. They do make me laugh though,and I feel guilty about that sometimes,considering the seriousness of the subject.

 

[Frank McLaughlin]

Pentagon plane

To add to BCR's account may be gilding the lily, but,

(1) A woman on the AA plane that hit the Pentagon called her husband from her cell phone and described what she was seeing from the plane window. Her husband later appeared on Larry King to emotionally recount the last conversation with his wife. (2) Four workers, not employed by the Pentagon directly, watched the plane hit from the Pentagon lawn in front, and two of them ducked, the American plane was that close. (3) One of the eyewitnesses was a Catholic priest, who jumped out of his car and took home one of the airline parts. (4) A lady who also picked up a plane part immediately after the crash had the metal identified as such by the Smithsonian. She donated it to the Smithsonian as part of their 9-11 exhibit.

I recently had a conversation on this topic with a visiting out-of-town Truther friend who happens to have a Master's degree in Electrical Engineering. He told me that the the American plane was really a hologram and that the missile which hit the Pentagon was invisible. (He was in town attending a conference on cold fusion). When you push these people, they just get more crazy.

You watch, CICORP will do one of two things: (1) he will not respond here. he will wait three months and then make the exact same claim elsewhere, or (2) he will find an example where one or two of the 136 eyewitnesses to the plane has lied or described something that could not possibly be true and will seek to discredit all eyewitnesses on this basis.

CICorp sent me an email in which he said he threw a heavy cinder block off a third story balcony onto pavement and noted that the block did not pulverize or turn to power. He was "proving" to me that the collapse of the WTC could not have resulted in producing so much fine dust without explosives.

Okay, that's not as crazy as claiming that 136 people saw an American Airlines hologram, but on the loon meter, you gotta acknowledge, that scores pretty high.

 

[Animal]

CICorp sent me an email in which he said he threw a heavy cinder block off a third story balcony onto pavement and noted that the block did not pulverize or turn to power. He was "proving" to me that the collapse of the WTC could not have resulted in producing so much fine dust without explosives.

Okay, that's not as crazy as claiming that 136 people saw an American Airlines hologram, but on the loon meter, you gotta acknowledge, that scores pretty high.

My favorite troofer experiment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9hnFPGxmVk

 

[TJM]

CICorp sent me an email in which he said he threw a heavy cinder block off a third story balcony onto pavement and noted that the block did not pulverize or turn to power. He was "proving" to me that the collapse of the WTC could not have resulted in producing so much fine dust without explosives.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

CICorp sent me an email in which he said he threw a heavy cinder block off a third story balcony onto pavement and noted that the block did not pulverize or turn to power. He was "proving" to me that the collapse of the WTC could not have resulted in producing so much fine dust without explosives.

CICorp's immensely stupid mistake is in presuming that the dust was primarily concrete. How many times do people have to remind conspiracy peddlers that the Twin Towers were primarily and predominantly office spaces, and that there was an enormous amount of things like drywall, ceiling tiles, insulative materials, cubicle dividers, etc. that all would've contribued to the dust cloud and covering across the immediate area?

The RJ Lee reports (yes, plural) tell us much about the dust post collapse: Much gypsum, much asbestos, much mineral wool, etc., all of those and all others I'm not mentioning being non-concrete components... but the only part truthers want to do is pay attention to is the part mentioning iron microspheres . But the story is right there. If only truthers would take time to actually study the information that's available...