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Penn & Teller on Cheerleaders

UncaYimmy said:
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* In American football, no changes need to be made. It was born perfect and continues to be perfect in every way. Including the cheerleaders.
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Oh I don't know...How about removing most / all the protective gear, banning forward passes and tackling players without the ball...then it'll be close to a proper sport.:p
 
I appreciate the comments on this topic. I note that the issue is now being litigated: Is cheerleading a sport?:
In a trial that kicks off today, a federal court in Connecticut is taking on the question of whether competitive cheerleading is a sport. The case appears to be the first that asks if Title IX standards for gender equity in sports can be met with high-kicks and pom poms.
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And what of the cheerleaders? While physical effort and ability are a given for many of the high-level gymnasts who cheer, Title IX has specific criteria for what counts as a sport when it comes to equity in athletics: a program must have a defined season, a governing organization, and feature competition as its primary goal. Competitive cheer is not recognized by the National Collegiate Athletics Association (NCAA) as a sport. Nor does it have a governing body: two versions of organizations that have filled the role have been associated with Varsity Brands, Inc., a for-profit company that sells cheerleading gear and hosts up to 60 "national championships" a year. To amplify its case that competitive cheer can indeed count as a varsity sport, Quinnipiac has joined with seven other schools to form the National Competitive Stunts and Tumbling Association, which is intended to be a new governing body for the sport. Four more schools need to sign on for it to be recognized as a legitimate governing body, and the sport itself to be seen as "emerging."
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The issue, it would appear, is far from being one-sided, and the "BS" label does not seem to be applicable.

There are lots of other student competitions, of course. Mock trial, for example, has taken off in the past few years. True, what mock trial students do is not athletic in the traditional sense. There are magic competitions, too, and some magic requires athletic ability. (Just ask Teller. But don't expect an answer.) There are also dance competitions, and considerable athletic ability is required for that activity. (Just ask Penn. But expect him to say that athletic ability is only necessarily if you don't want to come in DEAD LAST in the competition.)

The problem to be addressed is that cheerleading is an activity that is rising in popularity. It has also evolved from its original roots (it has been years since I have seen cheerleaders actually lead cheers) into displays of dance and gymnastic (if not circus-like) skills. To gain attention and acceptance, there is greater and greater pressure to try flashier and riskier moves with fewer safety measures. It is this dynamic that is leading to the increase in injuries.

The principal solution to the problem involves addressing the dynamic. If schools sponsor or endorse this activity, the schools should insist upon prioritizing safety (regardless of governmental compulsion or lack thereof). If parents want their kids to participate in a program, they should insist upon prioritizing safety. There should be pressure (from the schools, from the parents, from the governing bodies if any) that recklessness will not be rewarded, and that including spotters and safety equipment will not result in competitive penalty. This might lead to qualifying cheerleading as a sport under Title IX, but getting cheerleading to be declared a sport under Title IX is not the goal. Improved safety is.
 
Harpyja said:
Personally, as a band member, I was always just jealous that the cheerleaders would go to the away games and the band members didn't.
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I was a band member in college at USC. I went to Notre Dame (twice), Colorado, the Orange Bowl, the Vegas Bowl, Cal Berkley (twice), Stanford (twice), Oregon, Oregon State, Arizona and Arizona State (twice) on the university's dime (ucla twice too, if you count that). That made up for a bit of the away game jealosy.
 
Puppycow said:
Ah, well, I'll agree that competition cheerleading is a sport.

Just regular cheerleading though is not.
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People may be the under the impression that "cheerleading" is girls jumping up and down, waving their pom-poms and yelling "Go team!". Modern cheerleading, sport or not, is way, way beyond that.
 
I can still remember in the 1970s, when some university-level football games were on TV and the cheerleaders could only attract the attention of the cameras if they did spectacular backflips or handstands or other gymnastic razzle-dazzle. "What in the world does THAT have to do with CHEERLEADING?" said my grandfather. He was not being a curmudgeon; he just didn't think that all the showing off was related to the activity of leading cheers. And he was right. Cheerleaders in grade school didn't do that gymnastic stuff; but they weren't trying to get on television, either.

Modern cheerleading is misnamed. It isn't really what its name says it is. It has become an amalgam of stunts, tumbling, gymnastics, contortionism, dance and showmanship. It used to be that, to be a cheerleader, a girl needed a healthy voice and the ability to do the splits. But in this modern age, getting accpeted on a cheer squad requires a completely different set of skills.
 
Puppycow said:
Ah, well, I'll agree that competition cheerleading is a sport.

Just regular cheerleading though is not.
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Non-competition cheerleading should be included in the LEGAL definition of "sport" even if it does not meet the dictionary definition of "sport".
 
Ethan Thane Athen said:
Oh I don't know...How about removing most / all the protective gear, banning forward passes and tackling players without the ball...then it'll be close to a proper sport.:p
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We aren't insane retards. Even with the protective we still run the risk of knocking someone out cold.
 
Skeptic Guy said:
What if it's competitive bikini waxing?
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That's covered by my positions on judging (it's not a sport if the winner is a matter of opinion) and defense (unless the competition can interfere with your waxing, not a sport).

Be patient. I'm working on my manifesto.
 
UncaYimmy said:
That's covered by my positions on judging (it's not a sport if the winner is a matter of opinion) and defense (unless the competition can interfere with your waxing, not a sport).

Be patient. I'm working on my manifesto.
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It could be dangerous if competitors are allowed to interfere with the opponents waxing. I see a need for spotters on each team.
 
In My Spare Time said:
While it does seem inconsistant with their normal political agenda, it's a good point when you look at it on its own merits. I have no problem with it being considered a sport and if more oversight would improve safety, go for it.
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Well, I'd prefer the law be modified to take into account other athletic things that aren't sports per se, than just clownishly re-define things to bring them under the control of the law.

That's how we get crap like cryptology is "munitions" so it can't be exported, some stupid lake in New York is a "Great Lake" so it can take advantage of Congress' largess to support The Great Lakes, and, in Europe, carrots are fruit because some overzealous regulatory pissant felt the need to define jelly as "made from fruit", thus cutting off the carrot jelly people.
 
UncaYimmy said:
Did you think I was unaware of the above when wrote that if there's no defense, it's not a sport? BTW, if you think hard enough, you'll realize that a few of the ones you mentioned actually have defense, which is to say the actions of one competitor can adversely affect another.
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I wasn't able to tell, which is why I asked. Sometimes sarcasm doesn't carry in text.
 
I saw a cheerleading documentary from the 1970's. It was called Cheerleader's Wild Weekend and followed a group of young attractive cheerleaders as their football team prepared for a big game. In order to ensure that the opposing team would be tired and unfit for the big game, the cheerleaders took it upon themselves to "entertain" the opposing team on the evening prior. In fact, one of the girls even "entertained" the opposing quarterback during halftime to ensure a victory.

Thus, the cheerleaders were very much affecting the outcome of the game. My opinion: cheerleading is a sport.
 
I agree with UncaYimmy that any activity that is judged, as opposed to objectively measured, is not a sport. Sorry, gymnasts and figure skaters; while what you do is unquestionably very athletic and requires great skill, it's not a sport.

Dwarf-throwing, on the other hand, IS a sport. My dwarf goes further than yours, I win. No subjectivity there.
 
jhunter1163 said:
I agree with UncaYimmy that any activity that is judged, as opposed to objectively measured, is not a sport. Sorry, gymnasts and figure skaters; while what you do is unquestionably very athletic and requires great skill, it's not a sport.
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Don't forget boxing in that list.
 
I've been around a lot of marching band situations, and although there may be a little local pride involved in having the band from college "A" do a part of the halftime show when they're on the road to play college "B" it still seems like the music part of it is fairly benign. But... take a peek at the DCA and other drum corps worlds, these are drum corps that are by definition competitive, they run camps and competitions that draw large crowds. I've noticed that people that are "into" that are really crazy about it. Some of it is really very intricately musical, they're doing cool stuff with pit percussion and such. BUT! This isn't what high school bands are about (to me) and it's similar to what highly competitive and gymnastic cheerleading is. No surprise that there are $$-making organizations behind both scenarios.
 
jhunter1163 said:
Boxing is a gray area.. if you get knocked out, you've obviously lost, but equally obviously not all boxing matches end that way. On balance, I would call it a sport.
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''Don'y leave it in the hands of the judges'' :D

'Bring It On' popped up on TV not long back and I was amazed at the stuff these girls get up to. Outside the US, I think we still tend to think of cheerleading as pretty girls waving pom-poms and not much else.

When the film started my thoughts were ''Jebus, I don't want to watch another awful teen-angst movie about not being liked by the popular kids.''

But I did watch it. All the way through. And not just because of the teenage girls in short skirts. Honest.
 
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