Pearl Harbor Conspiracy

[dudalb]

LIHOP* is popular with the clique that needed more reasons to hate FDR. The fact is that if the Japanese were ambushed on the way into T.H. FDR would have been bullet proof at the polls for 16-20 more years. AND the ships could have been made largely bullet-proof by going to GQ ten minutes before the first bomb was dropped.

*Let It Happen On Purpose.

Bill Halsey, before he left on the Enterprise to ferry planes to Wake Island, pretty made it clear to Kimmel that he would sink any Japanese War ship he saw in his path. Kimmel did not object.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Yeah, the presumption being that any Bandit east of the International Date was operating under a nefarious agenda. Halsey, and Adm Brown, agreed that approaching middle of nowhere was sufficient grounds for an aggressive defensive stance. (Loosely remembered from the Pearl Harbor Attack Hearings. If you search for "PHA" and "Pearl Harbor Attacked" you should find the original testimony from both admirals.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

We haven't had any discussion of Pearl Harbor CTs here for ages. There are one or two proponents still around, but they haven't had anything to say in quite a while.

Well, of course not. If they've gone through my donations they know they're done and done.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Bill Halsey, before he left on the Enterprise to ferry planes to Wake Island, pretty made it clear to Kimmel that he would sink any Japanese War ship he saw in his path. Kimmel did not object.

Halsey: ":What do I do if i run into Japanese forces?"
Kimmel: [shrug] "Do what Makes sense".
Halsey: "Best damn order I ever had!"

 

[Andy_Ross]

The problem with Hawaii was that it wasn't supposed to be a fleet base.
The decision by Admiral Stark to make Hawaii the fleet base after the 1940 fleet exercises was almost spur of the moment and opposed by Admiral Richardson.
He pointed out that the facilities , equipment and stores to maintain the whole fleet long term was all on the West Coast.
Among other things, there wasn't enough ammunition to supply ships even for exercise firing and the fleet only had 2 ammunition stores ships to deliver any.
There weren't enough keel blocks to drydock any more than one large ship at a time, and not enough paint or general stores to service them.
The fleet needed 200,000 barrels of oil a month but was barely getting 100,000 due to lack of tankers so even without exercising the stocks were running down.
It was never decided whether the fleet was there as a general deterrent or expecting to fight, as a consequence training exercises were muddled and lacking.
For months there was no decision on the permanence of the fleet being based in Hawaii, it was described as a delayed in redeployment and was considered to be temporary so Richardson couldn't get the stores equipment he needed transferred.

Richardson was the convenient scapegoat when the ◊◊◊◊ hit the fan.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Halsey: ":What do I do if i run into Japanese forces?"
Kimmel: [shrug] "Do what Makes sense".
Halsey: "Best damn order I ever had!"

Halsey was lucky early on but made bad decisions later on.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Nobody's perfect. And subordinates can certain "get you". After all, it isn't everybody who can say "turkey trots to water."

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Richardson was the convenient scapegoat when the ◊◊◊◊ hit the fan.

Kimmel allowed the Fleet Deployment Schedule to be published ... publicly. (Richardson started that, shooting offense in wartime.) Gave the whores in Honolulu a predictable holiday scheduling plan. Gave Yoshikawa Takao some great intel.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The shortcoming at T.H. were rectified rapidly. The Rose Hill underground fuel storage, nearing completion*, was one of those "fixes". Three tankers could refill the tanks in 90 days, nine tankers could do that in 30 days. Other facilities were also in expansion. Pearl would be a strong base with alacrity.

*and addressing one of the "weaknesses" of the bases

 

[Andy_Ross]

The shortcoming at T.H. were rectified rapidly. The Rose Hill underground fuel storage, nearing completion*, was one of those "fixes". Three tankers could refill the tanks in 90 days, nine tankers could do that in 30 days. Other facilities were also in expansion. Pearl would be a strong base with alacrity.

*and addressing one of the "weaknesses" of the bases

Bit it wasn't when it was attacked.

Nine tankers weren't available, the fleet only had two.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Bit it wasn't when it was attacked.

Nine tankers weren't available, the fleet only had two.

The tankers mentioned would include civilian hulls. You might say that Pearl had a "head of the line" pass.

 

[Andy_Ross]

a shortage of tankers was a problem for the US Navy until the end of 1942

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

a shortage of tankers was a problem for the US Navy until the end of 1942

And Pearl had a head of the line pass in the Pacific.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Bit it wasn't when it was attacked

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/s/ships-present-at-pearl-harbor.html

The tankers were ones that were leased to the USN for "topping off" the local storage. There were tankers under US control that weren't in Pearl that day over and above the ones already mentioned, other tankers in the Pacific at the time. There were also USN-leased tankers in the Caribbean.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The tankers on the East Coast were replenishing US forces in the Atlantic and the Caribbean. They could have been diverted from the US East Coast, and the Caribbean without seriously hampering USN patrols. There was no shooting war of equal scale in either of those areas. Compare the distances simply to get in range of the enemy forces on either side of the planet.

 

[SpitfireIX]

Well, of course not. If they've gone through my donations they know they're done and done.

Your tremendous contributions notwithstanding, we'll get a fringe reset eventually. Conspiracists always try those.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The "fringe" is the high (water) line on the inside of their skull.