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Peak Oil: What are the Facts?

That seems unnecessarily selfish.
It would appear so wouldn't it.
I wouldn't worry about what happens when your gone, there's enough to worry about while your still here.

Because they love their children. Even the childless ones typically have neices or children of friends that they recognize will have needs.
I know and its heartwarming, if a little sickly sweet.

Most people think that "find a way to survive" is a rather low bar to set; while you may be happy with the idea that your grandchildren will be killing game (or the tribe next door) with a flint hatchet and eating it raw, but I'd rather like for my young relatives to have a life at least as nice as the one I have.
I wasn't intending the bar to be set at just surviving, if history is to teach us anything the standards of living will continue to improve and life expectancy will continue to rise, why would you assume it will suddenly take a dramatic u-turn?
I fear you have been trawling the 2012 doom and gloom conspiracy sites too long if you believe we are all going to be wandering around like cavemen.

As you clearly are aware there's loads of uranium in the sea, theres also solar energy, wind power, tidal power,so what are you worried about the children for?
 
As you clearly are aware there's loads of uranium in the sea, theres also solar energy, wind power, tidal power,so what are you worried about the children for?

I'm worried that we're not going to develop and invest in the necessary technology and infrastructure in time. Creating enough nuclear plants or solar farms to supply a reasonable fraction of our current energy needs, not to mention future ones, will cost billions if not trillions, and take twenty years or more.

Putting it off will not make it any cheaper or faster, and in fact is likely to make it slower and more expensive. Basically, the economic pain will be real, but we have it in our power to make the pain greater or lesser by suitable planning.

I fear that there are a lot of people who are simply happy to push the economic pain just beyond their life expectancy. And our children will not than us for that.
 
will cost billions if not trillions,
Its only money/digits on a computer screen, it would become irrelevant if the planet really did get in trouble.
If mankind was in trouble it wouldn't be down to money you can be sure of that.
 
Putting it off will not make it any cheaper or faster, and in fact is likely to make it slower and more expensive. Basically, the economic pain will be real, but we have it in our power to make the pain greater or lesser by suitable planning.



Unfortunately, the prospect of massive economic pain sometime in the future seems to be woefully inadequate at motivating people to endure a bit of economic pain right now.

Here in my city, we've needed a new bridge across the river to Quebec for 20 years or so now, but we're still arguing about where to put it, because some people don't want to just suck it up and build it. I can't imagine what it would take to get these idiots to approve a new nuclear power station.
 
Its only money/digits on a computer screen, it would become irrelevant if the planet really did get in trouble.

Er, no. Money is real; the money/digits on a computer screen that are spent on energy infrastructure is money/digits that aren't available to other purposes, such as medical care, industrial infrastructure, basic research and development, and so forth.

While it's true that if we were in real trouble, the money could be found, waiting until we're in real trouble ensures that we'll have to find much more money and cut a lot of other discretionary spending short.

We could have repaired and strengthened the levees in New Orleans at any point in the twenty years before Katrina for a lot less than the damage caused by the hurricane.

Hell, any homeowner knows this, or should. If you have a minor leak in the roof, you should repair it quickly, because a few hundred for a patch job is much better than having to replace rotted joists.
 
Hell, any homeowner knows this, or should. If you have a minor leak in the roof, you should repair it quickly, because a few hundred for a patch job is much better than having to replace rotted joists.



Yes, and when I was president of my condo board in my last place of residence, it was like pulling teeth to get the rest of the community to pay enough in condo fees so that we could have a reserve fund available to do these sorts of repairs and maintenance, even though we'd just completed an engineering study that explicitly outlined all the work we'd likely need done over the next 1, 5, 10 and 20 year periods.

Peoples is dum.
 
Er, no. Money is real
I know, and there is only a limited amount that can be spent and its down to people to ensure its allocated correctly.
At the moment cleverer people than you or I have decided that extracting uranium from sea water is not a viable option as there is still boatloads of oil about.
When there isnt they will decide that extracting uranium is an option and start the ball rolling.
I wouldnt worry about it, mankind can cope.

By the way have you noticed how its, only now that adults are worrying about how their children are going to cope when there gone?
Past generations just got on with their lives, it just seems to be fashionable at the moment to pretend to be all concerned about the planet.

Al Gore has a lot to answer for.
 
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Peoples is dum.

Very much so.

But when the pressure is on, we can do crap like the Manhattan Project.

I'm pretty sure that in case of global energy emergency, we would retool a lot faster than people predict now.
 
The arguments go both ways. I have heard a lot of anti peak oilers who build up a straw man based on the false assumption that the problem is oil 'running out'.

No, we're not going to wake up tomorrow with no oil, but the way I see it...

- Oil higher in price therefore large new deposits become profitable. But, higher prices mean less commuter travel, higher prices of petroleum-based products (fertilizers therefore food, some plastics (e.g. computer parts)), less air travel hence less tourism $.

- Massive destabilisation in countries where economy depends on oil, e.g. commuter lifestyles and car ownership, agriculture, tourism. E.g. here in NZ our economy is largely based on tourism and shipping meat to the other side of the world.

- Exploitation of oil-rich protected areas = ecological damage, conflicts, species loss

- Failure of countries that previously had oil and new conflicts in countries which now have the biggest oil deposits - i.e. what's going to happen to the middle east and the when the US, Europe, China and Russia decide it's no longer strategically important from a national energy security pov?

- Exploitation of large tracts of land for short-term alternative energy sources, most likely invasive species of crops for biofuels. This is already happening in Africa, resulting in higher prices for local food (because food crops are being replaced by biofuel crops) and the export of $profits overseas.

- Excess waste and pollution, and changing economy from petroleum-based to coal in many places, as well as damaging alternative energy projects (e.g. three gorges dam)

- Rushed process of countries moving to nuclear power - political instability, possible accidents.

Put it this way. According to the Good Lord Wikileaks, there were 806 million cars and light trucks on the road around the world in 2007, not to mention the agricultural and factory machinery, and consumer items (lawnmowers, generators, chainsaws, etc) that use petrol. Nuclear power isn't going to help unless we get Mr Fusion. Even if there was a coordinated global effort to move to clean, green power (e.g. electric cars/wind/solar) the world could only produce a fraction of what is needed to replace these.

Also consider a lot of the clean, green power equipment needs to be created from petroleum-based products or processes.

And what's going to happen to the billions of tonnes of global machinery (above) that runs on oil - retrofit??

It's ok in the 1st world suburbs to sit and wait for the petrol station to be replaced by a new electric car re-charge station (or expect the boffins will "come up with something in time"), but a large %'ge of the world is based on either major cities where food needs to be trucked in for long distances (currently cheaply) or more isolated areas where the economy depends on commuting in beaten-up pickups and mopeds, and where the locals can hardly afford even cheap fuel.
 
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The arguments go both ways. I have heard a lot of anti peak oilers who build up a straw man based on the false assumption that the problem is oil 'running out'.

No, we're not going to wake up tomorrow with no oil, but the way I see it...

- Oil higher in price therefore large new deposits become profitable. But, higher prices mean less commuter travel, higher prices of petroleum-based products (fertilizers therefore food, some plastics (e.g. computer parts)), less air travel hence less tourism $.

- Massive destabilisation in countries where economy depends on oil, e.g. commuter lifestyles and car ownership, agriculture, tourism. E.g. here in NZ our economy is largely based on tourism and shipping meat to the other side of the world.

- Exploitation of oil-rich protected areas = ecological damage, conflicts, species loss

- Failure of countries that previously had oil and new conflicts in countries which now have the biggest oil deposits - i.e. what's going to happen to the middle east and the when the US, Europe, China and Russia decide it's no longer strategically important from a national energy security pov?

- Exploitation of large tracts of land for short-term alternative energy sources, most likely invasive species of crops for biofuels. This is already happening in Africa, resulting in higher prices for local food (because food crops are being replaced by biofuel crops) and the export of $profits overseas.

- Excess waste and pollution, and changing economy from petroleum-based to coal in many places, as well as damaging alternative energy projects (e.g. three gorges dam)

- Rushed process of countries moving to nuclear power - political instability, possible accidents.

Put it this way. According to the Good Lord Wikileaks, there were 806 million cars and light trucks on the road around the world in 2007, not to mention the agricultural and factory machinery, and consumer items (lawnmowers, generators, chainsaws, etc) that use petrol. Nuclear power isn't going to help unless we get Mr Fusion. Even if there was a coordinated global effort to move to clean, green power (e.g. electric cars/wind/solar) the world could only produce a fraction of what is needed to replace these.

Also consider a lot of the clean, green power equipment needs to be created from petroleum-based products or processes.

And what's going to happen to the billions of tonnes of global machinery (above) that runs on oil - retrofit??

It's ok in the 1st world suburbs to sit and wait for the petrol station to be replaced by a new electric car re-charge station (or expect the boffins will "come up with something in time"), but a large %'ge of the world is based on either major cities where food needs to be trucked in for long distances (currently cheaply) or more isolated areas where the economy depends on commuting in beaten-up pickups and mopeds, and where the locals can hardly afford even cheap fuel.

There are some big adjustments on the way when oil becomes more expensive.
This was happening in a way in 2005, when I was in the middle of my Peak Oil scare. Made it extra scary because I could see the beginnings of PO doom scenario unfold on the MS news.

Business models were starting to fail (trucking and airlines), there were actual shortages in China with people cueing for days at gas stations etc.


i think we can solve the problems, but it will be a bumpy ride.
 
FWIW, I think there are fuel shortages in China again, but it has nothing to do with Peak Oil and everything to do with insufficient refining capacity.

Same cause as 2006.
But in my tunnel of doom, it added to the narrative that the PO doom scenario was unfolding.
 
BTW,

I also wonder what will happen to places like Saudi Arabia when the oil runs out.
They might make a killing first as it gets more expensive, or they might experience dwindling profits as more investments are needed to extract.

But once we go for nukes in a big way, these countries are history unless they get really creative.
 
I think we often forget to look at the big picture, when we envisage scenarios like that of high oil prices. We look at the downsides, but forget that there are upsides, as well.

- So jobs will be lost due to less commuting, etc, but other jobs will be created, implementing alternative enrgy sources.

- So many goods will be more expensive, but that will also mean better profit margins.

- So export may be reduced, but so will import.

...

Big changes will happen, but human history is one of big changes, and so far, we have always come out on top, in the long run.

Hans
 
BTW,

I also wonder what will happen to places like Saudi Arabia when the oil runs out.
They might make a killing first as it gets more expensive, or they might experience dwindling profits as more investments are needed to extract.

But once we go for nukes in a big way, these countries are history unless they get really creative.
Well, if they can cut down to one Rolls per family, their savings should last them a few generations.

Anyhow, those are some people I wont cry to see loose power and influence. I'm sure most of them can find a job, somewhere.

Hans
 
BTW,

I also wonder what will happen to places like Saudi Arabia when the oil runs out.

I'd bet on 'nothing, for at least a good while'. Saudi Arabia doesn't need an uninterrupted cash inflow from oil to keep itself going, it has one of the world's largest sovereign wealth funds.

In other words, you don't have to pay them anymore, they've already got your money.
 
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Big changes will happen, but human history is one of big changes, and so far, we have always come out on top, in the long run.

Hans

+1
why worry about things that individually we have absolutly no control over.
 
Considering the rapid growth of the Automobile fleet in China and India or other nations and the lack of enough newly discovered oil deposits. might make Peak oil coming closer a lot faster than some expect here.
we are still behind with proper alternatives.
 

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