Pdoherty and Gravy debate thread

[pdoherty76]

we were done a long time ago. i meant your country bombing afghanistan not u, but u knew that of course.

if osama was wanted back in the mid 90's, how shameful that the entire military and federal might of the worlds most powerful country couldnt get this one man in the 5 years before 911. Your not gonna like this but im gonna give u my OPINION. i dont have 65 billion pieces of evidence to back it up but here goes.

In my opinion osama is a convenient enemy for the US. No i cant give you an article in time magazine that states this or a page from the 911 commision report. it is my opinion



i realise that opinions here are about as welcome as pork at a bar mitzvah but u cant change my right to have one.

im calling an end to this post

 

[pdoherty76]

oh by the way , at 11am on 9/11 every newscaster on all the major networks said that they werent taking the palestinian claim too seriously because these false claims follow every attack. every single one said that and thay are experienced journalists

 

[Gravy]

oh by the way , at 11am on 9/11 every newscaster on all the major networks said that they werent taking the palestinian claim too seriously because these false claims follow every attack. every single one said that and thay are experienced journalists

Name one.

 

[pdoherty76]

no i will not name one. you know who they are and u can easily look at the footage.

every response from you is an implicit accusation that i am lying.

they said it. go and look at the real time footage

and guess what...when they said it they didnt then produce evidence to back it up. they said it because it is widely regarded as being true. u see some truths arent documented.

ur MO is childish.

u could say to me u love ur wife and i could say "prove love exists"

pathetic and u know it.

no debate has taken place here and never does.

 

[Gravy]

False. I do not know who they are, I saw no live coverage of 9/11 or its aftermath, and I do not know where to find the information that you claim exists. Since you do know, tell me and I'll check it out.

The burden of proof of your claims is not on me, PD. It's on you. That's one of the foundations of critical thinking. Here's a good introduction to the topic: http://www.csicop.org/si/9012/critical-thinking.html

The more serious your allegations become, the higher your standards of evidence need to be. If you're claiming that Islamist terrorists did not attack the US on 9/11, but that the US govermnent did, you will need to have very high standards of evidence indeed, since evidence to the contrary is so comprehensive.

Here's an example I used for the Loose Change guys. I use a similar example all the time as a thought exercise for people in the "Truth Movement." You may not be a US citizen. Insert your country in place of "America."

Let’s have a look at America if the laws of the land were based on your rules. Imagine that you were accused of murder or some other horrible crime.

• By your rules, you would be considered guilty until proven innocent.
• Rumor and hearsay would be valid evidence against you.
• The “investigation” into the crime would be done by hacks with no relevant expertise.
• The burden of proof would be on you, the accused.
• The mountain of factual evidence proving your innocence would be inadmissible, because it represents the "official story."

Is that your vision for America?

PD, I hope some of this is sinking in. You and people like you make extremely serious allegations without a shred of evidence to back them. That is irresponsible. Please stop.

 

[pdoherty76]

ok gravy i will admit i am not into this critical thinking and it isnt the place for me. I simply dont question people like that. maybe i am nuts

go to a torrent site and search for the footage, its all there and they all say it because it is true. Groups do falsely claim responsibility and u know that whether i can name them or not.

Ur vision that i have for america is not the case. As i cited elsewhere on this site, the parents of jon benet ramsey had a trial by tv in ur media despite not being charged with any crime, and that is ur media doing it not ur citizens.

I am not calling for president bush and his crew to be immediately jailed, i would like an independent investigation of 911 with no conflicts of interest.

that is all. my concerns over 911 are reasonable. If there is not sufficient evidence against osama then it should be an ongoing investigation to find sufficient evidence against somebody.

And by the way, i havent made any ◊◊◊◊◊◊ videos or promoted myself, i want 911 sorted for those victims.

 

[Gravy]

my concerns over 911 are reasonable.

I have shown, by providing evidence, that the ones you've expressed here are not reasonable or informed.

If there is not sufficient evidence against osama then it should be an ongoing investigation to find sufficient evidence against somebody.

There was. It was the largest criminal investigation, by far, in American history. Nothing has ever come close.

The results of that investigation are summarized in the 9/11 Commission Report. Pay particular attention to the notes for each chapter. That's where you'll find out how the information was gathered. It's also important to read the staff monographs on the travel and financing of the 9/11 terrorists.

The US really was attacked by Islamist extremists on 9/11. It happened. Trying to wish that fact away or blaming it on someone else is a very, very dangerous thing to do.

I'm glad you're concerned about the victims. I hope you will join me in condemning the people who falsely accuse victims of 9/11 of involvement in the crimes. My WTC 7 paper shows those people in action.