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PDA blues...

Upchurch

Papa Funkosophy
Joined
May 10, 2002
Messages
34,265
Location
St. Louis, MO
I've had Palm for a long time now, but have had two go out on me and I'm about fed up with the whole thing.

Does anyone have any opinion about Palm vs. a Pocket PC PDA?

edited to add: Can you beam info from one type to the other, anyone know?
 
Upchurch said:
I've had Palm for a long time now, but have had two go out on me and I'm about fed up with the whole thing.

Does anyone have any opinion about Palm vs. a Pocket PC PDA?

edited to add: Can you beam info from one type to the other, anyone know?
Although I haven't had occasion to look into this, I've never heard of being able to beam the basic PIM info directly (edit: to a PocketPC, I mean). Of course you can beam about any Palm file, at least if you use the right utilities, but getting the PocketPC to read it might be another matter.

I've never seriously considered switching platforms myself. Too much investment in peripherals and software, plus PalmReader ebooks. And there's a lot more shareware out there for Palm. But battery life on recent models seems to be sinking almost to PocketPC levels. :(
 
Re: Re: PDA blues...

wayrad said:
I've never seriously considered switching platforms myself. Too much investment in peripherals and software, plus PalmReader ebooks. And there's a lot more shareware out there for Palm. But battery life on recent models seems to be sinking almost to PocketPC levels. :(
All the software I have was either included, freeware or shareware, so no big loss there. I'm trying one last thing this morning in an attempt to savage my poor m505. It should take another hour or so of charging and then I should know.

Thanks for the beaming info. That might become an issue, but if an add-on will allow me to read Palm beams, that might be okay. I'll have to nose around online.
 
Upchurch said:
I've had Palm for a long time now, but have had two go out on me and I'm about fed up with the whole thing.

Does anyone have any opinion about Palm vs. a Pocket PC PDA?

edited to add: Can you beam info from one type to the other, anyone know?

I prefer my analog PDA. It's much cheaper than digital and does the job for me.

legal_pad_and_pen.jpg
 
Re: Re: PDA blues...

Abdul Alhazred said:


I prefer my analog PDA. It's much cheaper than digital and does the job for me.
I think the 80+ books I'm currently carrying around would take up a bit more room in that format, not to mention all the calculators and maps.;)

Upchurch, I don't blame you for being sick of the m505; they have miserable screens. I think you can get some good deals on Zire 71's and Tungstens these days. I'm thinking of moving up to a T3 or possibly a Zodiac, but am waiting to see if they fix the analog pad problem on the latter.

What was wrong with yours? SUDS?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: PDA blues...

Upchurch said:
I'm not familiar with "SUDS".
Sudden USB Death Syndrome, or Suddenly USB Doesn't Sync. I remember a workaround from a while back (before they came out with the enhanced cradle) that involved completely discharging and recharging the battery, which is why I wondered if that was your problem.
 
Upchurch said:
I've had Palm for a long time now, but have had two go out on me and I'm about fed up with the whole thing.

Does anyone have any opinion about Palm vs. a Pocket PC PDA?

edited to add: Can you beam info from one type to the other, anyone know?

Lessee... I have a Palm Zire 71, an M505, a Palm IIIc, and a Symbol barcode scanner. I don't have a Pocket PC device at the moment, though I've worked with them. I do have a Linux Sharp Zaurus.

The major advantage of the Pocket PC devices is that they're like Windows PCs with a teeny tiny screen.

The major disadvantage of the Pocket PC devices is that they're like Windows PCs with a teeny tiny screen. Don't forget to clear out the files in the temporary directory every once in a while.

I really admire the Palm people for keeping their user interfaces clean, straightforward, direct, and responsive.

On the other hand, a Pocket PC is like a Windows PC with a teeny tiny screen. You probably won't mind a few spash screens for 20 seconds, and you can probably remember which programs require you to save. And it's designed to be just like Outlook and all your favorite Microsoft programs.

The newer Palm devices are really quite fast, with the StrongArm processor.

On the other hand, cool, the Pocket PC is like a Windows PC with a teeny tiny screen. Don't forget to install the service packs.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PDA blues...

wayrad said:

Sudden USB Death Syndrome, or Suddenly USB Doesn't Sync. I remember a workaround from a while back (before they came out with the enhanced cradle) that involved completely discharging and recharging the battery, which is why I wondered if that was your problem.
Ya know, I think that was exactly the problem. They sent me a little SD expansion card that was supposed to run a program that reset the hot sync, but basically all it did was keep the palm actively running until the batteries ran out.

After I did the process the first time, my screen was funked up and I thought it was a goner. I ran it through the process again and it snapped out of it, thank gawd. I did not want to drop another couple hundred bucks on a new one.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PDA blues...

Upchurch said:
Ya know, I think that was exactly the problem. They sent me a little SD expansion card that was supposed to run a program that reset the hot sync, but basically all it did was keep the palm actively running until the batteries ran out.

After I did the process the first time, my screen was funked up and I thought it was a goner. I ran it through the process again and it snapped out of it, thank gawd. I did not want to drop another couple hundred bucks on a new one.
Does your cradle have a sticker on the underside with an E or an H on it? If not, Palm should replace it. The old "unenhanced" cradles that shipped with the early m500/505 were a major factor in the SUDS problem (the USB chip gets all discombobulated by static discharges).

edited to add: Possibly they won't replace the cradle on such an old model, but if that's the case, it might still be worth your while to scrounge around for a used one (it's the same cradle used for the Tungsten T series and all m5x models, so should be easy to find). You're actually pretty lucky the battery thing worked, and some people got SUDS more than once, back when they were just replacing the units under the warranty and hadn't figured out the cause.
 
Drat, too late to edit my earlier post and I just realized I made it sound like the USB chip was in the cradle...it's in the Palm AFAIK, but something about the original cradles made them very likely to transfer a static charge to the PDA. I've heard of cases even with the enhanced cradle, but they are much rarer.
 
Re: Re: PDA blues...

epepke said:
On the other hand, a Pocket PC is like a Windows PC with a teeny tiny screen. You probably won't mind a few spash screens for 20 seconds, and you can probably remember which programs require you to save.
I develop applications for the Pocket PC, and if you have any applications installed on your machine that show a splash screen or require you to specifically save your work, then you should blame the software vendor, not Microsoft.

The Pocket PC User Interface Guidelines specifically state that an application should use an auto save / transparent save model. Pocket PC apps are different to desktop apps in that the user should not be able to exit an application from within the application, when the top level UI form has been dismissed the application will continue to run in the background. Developers should handle the Deactivate event by persisting the current data state to the storage directory and releasing as many resources as possible. When the application is reactivated the data state should be retrieved from storage and the application should be made to appear in the state it was the last time the user dismissed it. So -- from the user's perspective at least -- there is no concept of saving data.

As far as splash screens go, I've not seen any Microsoft Pocket PC apps that show a splash screen, and if any third party vendors are doing this then you should email them a "please explain" as to why they insist on wasting memory. If they're using a splash screen to cover up the fact that it takes 20 seconds for their application to get up and running, then they need to re-examine their architecture. They should only be creating objects as they are needed, but it sounds like they're trying to create all their objects at startup.
 
I got a pocketpc (IPAQ 5something or other). I find that it has much greater functionality than Palm. Since the hardware is made by third parties it provides a wide variety in capabliities, from the frugal models to the over the top does everything including sleep with you types.
The variety of Palms you are seeing come out now are in response to the major market share hit Palm took when the PPC platform was released.
 
Re: Re: Re: PDA blues...

Iconoclast said:

I develop applications for the Pocket PC, and if you have any applications installed on your machine that show a splash screen or require you to specifically save your work, then you should blame the software vendor, not Microsoft.

:con2: Who's blaming anybody? I'm not. I'm not even making any value judgements. Why so defensive?

I'm just characterizing the platforms. Obviously, what you want determines what you want. And if it's what you want, it's bitchen, and if it isn't, it sucks.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: PDA blues...

epepke said:
:con2: Who's blaming anybody? I'm not.
Well, I am. As I stated above, if you have PPC apps that explicitly require you to save your work, it's because the software vendor didn't adhere to Microsoft's UI Guidelines.

epepke said:
Why so defensive?
Arguing a point does not imply defensiveness. What you wrote implied that the Pocket PC delivers an inferior user experience compared to other devices such as the Palm. I was merely pointing out that the problems you found (splash screens on startup, having to remember to save your work etc) were a consequence of poorly written third party software rather than any inherent deficiency in the PPC platform.

epepke said:
I'm just characterizing the platforms. Obviously, what you want determines what you want. And if it's what you want, it's bitchen, and if it isn't, it sucks.
Oh, I think you've misread me there, the applications I write are industrial data logging apps, written for devices with onboard GPRS that transparently upload/download their data to or from a remote server whenever they have connectivity available.

While these applications have real value to the companies who commission them, I can find no compelling reason to ever own a (personal) PDA, hell I don't even own a mobile phone. I'm just not a gadget sort of person.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PDA blues...

Iconoclast said:
Arguing a point does not imply defensiveness. What you wrote implied that the Pocket PC delivers an inferior user experience compared to other devices such as the Palm.

That's your inference, not my implication. De gustibus non disputandum est. Judging whether a user experience is "inferior" or not is as arbitrary as deciding whether the Caterham 7 or the Taurus SHO is "better" to drive.

Hey, if anything, the Zaurus is even less PDA-like than either the Pocket PC or Palm platforms. But still, I like typing little Python programs into it, so when I'm in the mood to do that, that's what I'll use.

I might have had strong opinions about what user interfaces should be in the past, but I gave them up a few years ago after reading Alan Cooper's The Inmates are Running the Asylum. In it there's an extended rant about how waves a thousand dollars when going into Circuit City but can't buy a VCR that allows him to set the time with a dial instead of buttons. This bugged me, because I distinctly remembered there having been a universal remote controller with recording capabilities that had clock dials on it, with saturation advertising on television. I went to all the electronics stores in the neighborhood and visited the websites and called places that specialized in remotes.

I did finally find one sold at Walgreen's drug store and bought it. It was cheaper than most of the universal remotes that I had seen. I think it's pretty cool. It works with any VCR without programming (simply by sending out all known Record and Stop sequences).

But obviously, that's just because I like it, and it's purely ideosyncratic to me. Alan Cooper, no matter what he says, doesn't want one, because if he did he would just have gone out and bought one and shut up about it. Also, for all the design of the device might give me, Alan Kay, Donald Norman, Ben Shneiderman, and the rest of the UI Guru Crew shivers up and down the spine, it's obviously not what people want.

Because if it were what people wanted, with saturation advertising, a solid design, and a good price, it would be hideously popular. People could get it in Circuit City, and there would be knock-offs and upscale models with shiny Champagne knobs (or whatever the design trend is this week). Major equipment manufacturers would even license the design, and you'd see them starting to have this be the default remote. But this doesn't happen.

Another case in point. I bought a Go video deck. I was relatively flushed at the time, so I figured I might as well Buy American. It's the only deck I know that can copy a tape with one button press. It's also, and I only found this out after I bought it, the only deck I know of that sets the time automatically when you hook it up. I have no idea how--signals from WWV, perhaps? Anyway, it Just Works. But I haven't seen them conquer the market lately. Nor have I met anyone who notices, or cares, about this kind of thing. At all.

Oh, I think you've misread me there, the applications I write are industrial data logging apps, written for devices with onboard GPRS that transparently upload/download their data to or from a remote server whenever they have connectivity available.

Not sure whether or what I misread. I've written on contract a fair amount of Palm stuff, including the Symbol scanner library for NSBasic (and the shared library mechanism itself), and certainly these things have a big use in industrial settings.

I'd like to do more Pocket PC development, but right now I just cant justify shelling out relatively Big Bux for a device and development tools.
 
Sweet!

Unfortunately, I only know one guy who has a PPC and I usually only see him online, so not a lot of opportunity to try it out, but I'll keep that bookmarked just in case.

Thanks.
 

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