PC vs MAC

[Powa]

At work I use a mac (graphics designing). At home I have a PC with Windows XP, Windows Vista and Mac OS X. Yes, tripple boot.

I used to hate macs with passion. When I started my present job, we worked on macs with OS 9.2 *shudders*. Oh the pain... But when we got OS X, it quickly grew on me. Now, I would gladly switch. If... macs could run my favorite Windows programs.

I really like mac's ease of use and practically no viruses or spyware. In contrast, Windows are bloated, buggy, and unsecure. And way too expensive. Oh, and the f***ing Windows Genuine Advantage... Go after the pirates, don't try your best to piss ME off, the legitimate user.

 

[jimlintott]

Understood. But Ubuntu is Linux. Linux runs on Macs as well. So it's not appropriate to list it as a PC OS upgrade.

Just curious. What percent of PCs out in the world actually do run on a non-Microsoft OS?

That's a good question and I have no idea. Many Linux desktop installations are also dual boot so that confuses it further.

Linux also runs on damn near anything unlike BSDs which do run on anything. I got FreeBSD booted on an electric toothbrush. Linux is also making inroads into the embedded market. Many people have a Linux device in their homes and don't even know it. If you have a router there is a very good chance it runs Linux.

It's interesting that openness and flexibilty is being cited as one of the reasons for the success of the PC and I don't disagree. Heading into the future I keep seeing Microsoft becoming more closed and more proprietary while open source delivers that openness and flexibilty. It may be that what started the IBM-PC road to fame is what will kill MS in the end. (I don't think they will really die but they wll likely have to change course.)

 

[Cleon]

We're still upset that the Newton never caught on.

Don't be. Newton, despite its many flaws, essentially pioneered the PDA industry. It was one in a long line of Apple innovations that really revolutionized IT.

 

[tsg]

Here's what I don't get. What is it about PC users that compels them to proclaim their hate of all things Mac whenever the slightest glimmer of an opportunity arises?

If I don't like the kind of shoes you're wearing, I won't buy a pair for myself. But I won't blog abouit how awful your shoes are and why no one should ever buy them. And I surely won't berate you for your selection.

PC folks. Be happy. You rule the world! You've got the marketshare! Celebrate and be happy with your earthly domination.

Some of us don't want to be like you. Please try to be OK with that. We're not going to take away your PCs. You are free to toil away on Windows/Vista to your heart's content.

We're simply not going to join you in that endeavor. We've got our own platform and we're happy with it. Very happy. Don't hate us because we're happy. Doing so leads us to believe that you're not happy. Actually, that you're not happy and can't stand the thought that we are happy. And that rather than joining us in our happiness, you're compelled to force your unhappiness on us.

Surely this impression is in error. But that's how it plays to us. OK, maybe that's just how it plays to me. Nevertheless...

Like I said: I just don't get it.

As long as we're building strawmen....

[Typical PC User] hereby formally agrees to stop bashing Macs when [Typical Mac User] agrees to stop answering "Get A Mac" to PC-based tech support questions.

 

[CFLarsen]

As long as we're building strawmen....

[Typical PC User] hereby formally agrees to stop bashing Macs when [Typical Mac User] agrees to stop answering "Get A Mac" to PC-based tech support questions.

Hear, hear...

 

[Darat]

I think the rule should be simple - if someone suggests you get a Mac when you mention you have a non-Mac technical problem it should be treated as a legal contract and they should be forced to provide said Mac! And also if someone suggest when a Mac owner is trying to find some software "get a Windows PC" then the same rule should come into force.

(Anyone who has never had a technical problem with a Mac I suggest you at some point take it out of the box and plug it in! And note I am a Mac user.)

 

[geni]

Understood. But Ubuntu is Linux. Linux runs on Macs as well. So it's not appropriate to list it as a PC OS upgrade.

Do you really want me to list every single update of every single PC OS? It would be rather a long list.

Even the windows list is incorrect the true list being ah rather longer,

# Windows NT 5.1 (Windows XP)
# Windows NT 5.1 SP1
# Windows NT 5.1 SP2
# Windows NT 5.2 (Windows Server 2003)
# Windows NT 6.0 (Windows Vista)
# Windows Fundamentals

There is also (from 2001)

Windows PE Version 1.0
Windows PE Version 1.1
Windows PE Version 1.2
Windows PE Version 1.5 (2004)
Windows PE Version 1.6 (2005)
Windows PE Version 2.0 (2006)

that would be another 6.

Just curious. What percent of PCs out in the world actually do run on a non-Microsoft OS?

10% maybe.

 

[jimlintott]

I think the rule should be simple - if someone suggests you get a Mac when you mention you have a non-Mac technical problem it should be treated as a legal contract and they should be forced to provide said Mac! And also if someone suggest when a Mac owner is trying to find some software "get a Windows PC" then the same rule should come into force.

(Anyone who has never had a technical problem with a Mac I suggest you at some point take it out of the box and plug it in! And note I am a Mac user.)

I think that is perfectly fair.

So the next time someone has Windows trouble I will say "format c: install Linux. Here's a copy."

 

[Ian Osborne]

[Typical PC User] hereby formally agrees to stop bashing Macs when [Typical Mac User] agrees to stop answering "Get A Mac" to PC-based tech support questions.

I can't say I've never done that, but I don't turn up in a thread in which I have no interest, derail it and start another Macs vs PCs flame war, which is what happened in the MacWorld 2007 thrad.

 

[Wowbagger]

Ian Osbornes post was in reply to CFLarsen's post which was in reply to Wowbaggers post which stated "I choose Windows, because I am rich enough to afford the expensive upgrades"

When I talked about the expense of upgrading, I did not mean to imply all of the "major" updates were expensive. XP SP1 and SP2 were free updates. But, XP was expensive when it first came out, and Vista is going to be expensive when it comes out. Some of us crazy folk are willing to, and can afford to, burn our money away on these expensive upgrades. Which, I might add, might also require hardware upgrades, if you're gonna use the new system to its fullest. Macs don't usually have to worry as much about hardware upgrades.

As far as the list of upgrades between XP and Mac are concerned, I think the SP1 and SP2 updates constitute a significant enough update to be worthy of comparison to the 10.x upgrades of MacOS. Even if they were free updates.

The other Windows Updates updates are each small potatoes (many of which are rolled up in an SP). I'm sure Mac has their own equivalent of small-potato updates, as well.

I left off XP Media Center Edition, Tablet PC Edition, x64, Windows Server 2003, etc., because those are sold as separate products, not upgrades. Although, some may use them as such.

 

[Ian Osborne]

As far as the list of upgrades between XP and Mac are concerned, I think the SP1 and SP2 updates constitute a significant enough update to be worthy of comparison to the 10.x upgrades of MacOS. Even if they were free updates.

Fair enough, but that still leaves Macs with 50% more updates than Windows from 2001 to 2007. A copy of Mac OS X costs around 1/3 of the price of a Windows OS, so if the free SP 1 & 2 are considered upgrades, the total cost of ownership of the OS is about the same. The bottom line, of course, remains that Claus' comment about waiting a lot longer for Mac upgrades is BS.

The other Windows Updates updates are each small potatoes (many of which are rolled up in an SP). I'm sure Mac has their own equivalent of small-potato updates, as well.

Yeah, but our small-potato updates do it with more style!

Seriously, you're right - trivial fixes and patches are made available as soon as they appear, just like Windows.

 

[Rat]

And now, of course, I have to hear Apple evangelists telling me all about the new iPhone, which, as far as I can tell, is much like every other PDA/phone/smartphone/etc. that's been released in the last couple of years. Which I wouldn't mind, were it not for the marketing hyperbole being repeated as if it were real. There's nothing particularly wrong with it, but it isn't revolutionary, it isn't ahead of its time, it is about right for the price. It has a bog-standard resolution, with a bog-standard camera, and a bog standard capacity. It's fine, but it's not brilliant. That said, I'm sure it will sell like mad anyway, because if there's one thing Mac users have, it's brand loyalty.

 

[Doc Daneeka]

And now, of course, I have to hear Apple evangelists telling me all about the new iPhone, which, as far as I can tell, is much like every other PDA/phone/smartphone/etc. that's been released in the last couple of years. Which I wouldn't mind, were it not for the marketing hyperbole being repeated as if it were real. There's nothing particularly wrong with it, but it isn't revolutionary, it isn't ahead of its time, it is about right for the price. It has a bog-standard resolution, with a bog-standard camera, and a bog standard capacity. It's fine, but it's not brilliant. That said, I'm sure it will sell like mad anyway, because if there's one thing Mac users have, it's brand loyalty.

You probably wouldn't receive this show in the UK, but I'll mention it anyway. There's a show called Frontline that plays on PBS. It's a documentary series. The episode is called "The Persuaders" and is about how marketing people go about their business in the 21st century. There's this priceless scene where they interview the former brand manager for a major corporation who is trying to find a way to forge an emotional attachment to certain phrases. He makes a point of interviewing what he calls 'cultists', such as Hare Krishnas, wrestling fans, Falun Gong members, Mac users, etc.

I run several different os myself. I am partial to some over others of course. It utterly baffles me whenever (and this is quite often) I hear people rant about how this particular os is just plain better, in all possible ways.

 

[phyz]

Hear, hear...

And can I get a "Hear, hear" for this?

"I will not dive into a MacWorld (or similar) thread designed to speculate and discuss the news/announcements of Apple just to tell the people in that thread that they are foolish/stupid/wrong to like Macs, OS X, or anything related to Apple."

It's really, really simple. Easier than falling off a log. And it will save you some trouble down the road. Good news all around!

 

[phyz]

Do you really want me to list every single update of every single PC OS?

Truthfully, no.

I was simply amused by the argument that Macs advanced by quantum leaps spaced over great expanses of time. So I mentioned Jaguar, Panther, Tiger and Leopard (major upgrades--upgrades you had to pay for) would have occurred while Windows was in the process of advancing to Vista.

Incremental updates were of little interest to me. MS does 'em; Apple does 'em. I don't consider them upgrades. I appears PC folks (or at least those in the forum) do. Semantics at best.

 

[boooeee]

You probably wouldn't receive this show in the UK, but I'll mention it anyway. There's a show called Frontline that plays on PBS. It's a documentary series. The episode is called "The Persuaders" and is about how marketing people go about their business in the 21st century. There's this priceless scene where they interview the former brand manager for a major corporation who is trying to find a way to forge an emotional attachment to certain phrases. He makes a point of interviewing what he calls 'cultists', such as Hare Krishnas, wrestling fans, Falun Gong members, Mac users, etc.

Here's the online version if you want to see it: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/persuaders/view/

 

[Beleth]

Don't be. Newton, despite its many flaws, essentially pioneered the PDA industry. It was one in a long line of Apple innovations that really revolutionized IT.

IT? How did the Newton revolutionize Information Technology?

Now, my first real summer college job was taking care of the computer needs of an insurance office whose computer system consisted of about 25 Apple ][e's (shut up) networked together to a Corvus 25 Mb (which I upgraded to 80 Mb [that's right, Mb, not Gb]) hard drive. And I looked at this setup, with one disk drive and 25 CPUs, and I thought to myself "wow, this is so backwards." So I'm not saying that Apple didn't do a lot for IT innovation. I just don't see how the Newton figures into that picture.

 

[RayG]

I think it boils down to Windows machines provides choice and adaptability where Mac provides stability and ease.

I think it comes down to whatever you're comfortable with. Not sure I understand completely what you mean by 'choice', 'adaptability', 'stability', and 'ease'.

I'm not a PC-gamer so my Linux box provides as many choices as my three XP systems.

All four systems are stable and easy to use.

Adaptable? To what?

You lose. Prices are not prohibitive, if you include maintenance and ease of use. I can upgrade my Mac.

I'd have to disagree. Comparison pricing shows that for the price of an iMac I can purchase TWO generic PCs with the equivalent computing power.

What exactly do you mean by maintenance? I 'maintain' all four of my computers, but they require very little if any actual maintenance. As for ease of use, my six-year-old seems to have no trouble doing what she wants/likes on the XP systems (daddy's computer is NOT for the kiddies to play with).

RayG

 

[phyz]

Comparison pricing shows that for the price of an iMac I can purchase TWO generic PCs with the equivalent computing power.

OK; I'll bite! In the spirit of education,
1. Show me the $500 PC that matches
Core 2 Duo 1.83 GHz
17-inch flat panel LCD
512MB memory
160GB hard drive
24x Combo drive
Intel GMA 950 graphics
Airport Extreme
Ships: Within 24 hours
Free Shipping
$999.00

You said computing power, so I won't hold you to the design esthetic of the iMac.

2. Convince me that it's plug and play, and that it's not a doorstop within six months. For $170, Apple will see to it I get a computer that computes for three years. Surely PC manufacturers will do the same for $85 or less.

I submit to you as a student. Please educate! I certainly haven't priced PCs. Ever. So let it rip...

 

[PogoPedant]

And now, of course, I have to hear Apple evangelists telling me all about the new iPhone, which, as far as I can tell, is much like every other PDA/phone/smartphone/etc. that's been released in the last couple of years. Which I wouldn't mind, were it not for the marketing hyperbole being repeated as if it were real. There's nothing particularly wrong with it, but it isn't revolutionary, it isn't ahead of its time, it is about right for the price. It has a bog-standard resolution, with a bog-standard camera, and a bog standard capacity. It's fine, but it's not brilliant. That said, I'm sure it will sell like mad anyway, because if there's one thing Mac users have, it's brand loyalty.

Except it doesn't have 3G support, which is weird (imagine Sony saying "Look at our shiny new PS3! It has lots of shiny features, but we decided against high definition graphics. Who needs that, anyway?"). Worse, though, is that is appearantly doesn't support 3rd party software. To my mind, that is plain insanity. Why would I want a phone with lots of neat toys if I can't program it?

On the other hand, it has a multi-touch screen, and that rocks.