Paying for sex, should it be illegal?

[Aepervius]

So facts backed by data is drivel to you?

"Legal prostitution is state-sponsored prostitution. "

When the first sentence is completely wrong and reeks of political opiniating, do we nee to go further ?

 

[CORed]

Incorrect, but not inaccurate.

Let's say that tomorrow prostitution becomes legalized in America, for example. How do you compel a moderately educated woman born in an industrialized first world nation where she has rights to rent out her body to have sex with men she doesn't know? I'd imagine most women born here wouldn't do it for any price, let alone for the prices that Johns are willing to pay.

The supply most certainly does not met the demand since I recall a recent-ish poll stating that a majority of men would be willing to pay for sex if it were legal to do so. Where do they get the women and most importantly how?

I have seen a lot of claims that a large proportion of prostitutes in the US are victims of human trafficking. The evidence offered in support of these claims is of approximately the same quality as that offered in support of bigfoot, extraterresrial visitation and chemtrails.

Your personal incredulity about the willingness of women to engage in prostitution is irrelevant. As in any market, supply and demand will determine the price, and yes, it may well be higher than many men would like.

 

[CORed]

So facts backed by data is drivel to you?

What facts?
What data?

Your "fact sheet" certainly supports my post that immediately precedes this one.

 

[CORed]

"Legal prostitution is state-sponsored prostitution. "

When the first sentence is completely wrong and reeks of political opiniating, do we nee to go further ?

No.

 

[CORed]

Seriously? They wish to call that a fact sheet? Thank FSM that that drivel is only three pages.

Well sure it's a fact sheet. A whle lot of the paragraphs are preceded by "Fact:". What more could you possibly need? Nobody would put the word "Fact" in front of a lie, would they?

 

[Stellafane]

Male or female, we all pay for it in the end.

(So to speak.)

 

[Mudcat]

"Legal prostitution is state-sponsored prostitution. "

But it is. In fact I would go even further and say that it's legalized rape.

In any case I have to wonder if this is a skeptic's forum at times. Here we have people that in one breath will talk about how they're all about equality and human/women's rights and in that same breath turn around and say that prostitution should not be illegal. What? Am I the only one who sees the contradiction?

 

[Butter!]

But it is. In fact I would go even further and say that it's legalized rape.

In any case I have to wonder if this is a skeptic's forum at times. Here we have people that in one breath will talk about how they're all about equality and human/women's rights and in that same breath turn around and say that prostitution should not be illegal. What? Am I the only one who sees the contradiction?

But isn't it a woman's right to sell sex if she wants to and is comfortable doing so? You're only thinking of the trafficking and slavery angle. There are a LOT of women who sell degrees of sex and they work for themselves in many, many cases, not for pimps. How is that legalized rape?

ETA - Arguably, making it legal could actually decrease a lot of the exploitation-related criminal underbelly of the industry.

 

[Arcade22]

Let's say that tomorrow prostitution becomes legalized in America, for example. How do you compel a moderately educated woman born in an industrialized first world nation where she has rights to rent out her body to have sex with men she doesn't know?

Starvation is a pretty good motivator, and even if they can get unemployment benefits and assistance from social services getting a decent wad of cash for having sex isn't to scoff at.

I'd imagine most women born here wouldn't do it for any price, let alone for the prices that Johns are willing to pay.

So what?

So facts backed by data is drivel to you?

Data? I saw a bunch of completely unsourced assertions. Considering there are no references at all there's no simple and straightforward way to determine whether or not the claims in that document have any relation at all to reality. Hence it might as well be completely made up stuff.

 

[sadhatter]

But it is. In fact I would go even further and say that it's legalized rape.

In any case I have to wonder if this is a skeptic's forum at times. Here we have people that in one breath will talk about how they're all about equality and human/women's rights and in that same breath turn around and say that prostitution should not be illegal. What? Am I the only one who sees the contradiction?

If a woman wants to sell sex, who am i to stop her? I wouldn't partake myself but its also none of my business.

Also that was an opinion sheet not a fact sheet.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

? Am I the only one who sees the contradiction?

You're the only one who constructed it, so I'd say yes.

 

[LondonJohn]

But isn't it a woman's right to sell sex if she wants to and is comfortable doing so? You're only thinking of the trafficking and slavery angle. There are a LOT of women who sell degrees of sex and they work for themselves in many, many cases, not for pimps. How is that legalized rape?

Isn't there a wider issue here though? I think that much legislation in this area is informed by studies which show that a large proportion (a majority?) of female sex workers only do this "job" in order to earn fast, easy cash to pay for either drugs or loansharks. Therefore the whole issue of freewill is something of a grey area here.

(And that's of course separate from those women who really are forcibly coerced (whether psychologically or physically) to be sex workers).

 

[Mudcat]

How is that legalized rape?

If money weren't in the equation, how many of those women would be willing to let perfect strangers have sex with them? And let's make no mistake, that's exactly we're talking about here. Women being required to perform acts that they wouldn't be normally comfortable doing with people they normally wouldn't be comfortable doing it with.

That isn't about sex, it's about power. You know, like rape.

 

[Butter!]

If money weren't in the equation, how many of those women would be willing to let perfect strangers have sex with them? And let's make no mistake, that's exactly we're talking about here. Women being required to perform acts that they wouldn't be normally comfortable doing with people they normally wouldn't be comfortable doing it with.

That isn't about sex, it's about power. You know, like rape.

Yes, but money is in the equation. That's what makes all the difference. There's a lot of jobs people wouldn't do if they weren't getting paid, no?

Some people are funnier about sexual stuff than others. But plenty of women are quite free with it. Why not get paid for what is essentially a one-night stand if you're part of the latter group? No one is being forced to do anything though if they willingly take a job.

 

[LondonJohn]

If money weren't in the equation, how many of those women would be willing to let perfect strangers have sex with them? And let's make no mistake, that's exactly we're talking about here. Women being required to perform acts that they wouldn't be normally comfortable doing with people they normally wouldn't be comfortable doing it with.

That isn't about sex, it's about power. You know, like rape.

Yes but....... it's undeniable that in the case of prostitution there is a clear indication of (and understanding of) consent by the woman which is obviously absent in the case of rape. So I don't think any comparison is helpful.

But then one comes down to issues such as coerced consent and even deeper issues such as the economic circumstances (and pressures) of many women in the sex industry. In my view, it's not a black and white issue as you seem to imply - but I still come down strongly on the side of your ultimate conclusion: that it is in society's best interest to legislate against prostitution.

 

[Butter!]

Isn't there a wider issue here though? I think that much legislation in this area is informed by studies which show that a large proportion (a majority?) of female sex workers only do this "job" in order to earn fast, easy cash to pay for either drugs or loansharks. Therefore the whole issue of freewill is something of a grey area here.

(And that's of course separate from those women who really are forcibly coerced (whether psychologically or physically) to be sex workers).

There's some that are, sure. It's a good job for a junkie because it's quick money and no really regular schedule to keep in a lot of cases. However, that's not an adequate reason to ban it. There's a lot of junkies who take house-cleaning jobs off Craigslist too for the same reason, quick cash on the spot. Should we ban that work too? Of course not.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Isn't there a wider issue here though? I think that much legislation in this area is informed by studies which show that a large proportion (a majority?) of female sex workers only do this "job" in order to earn fast, easy cash to pay for either drugs or loansharks. Therefore the whole issue of freewill is something of a grey area here.

(And that's of course separate from those women who really are forcibly coerced (whether psychologically or physically) to be sex workers).

Isn't all that because it's illegal? We seem to have a loop there.

 

[fuelair]

After the first of June it will be illegal to pay for sex in Northern Ireland, though not in the rest of the UK, and a similar measure is being considered in the Republic.
Is this a good idea?

In one of the more novel uses of crowdfunding the law is being challenged in a case that will almost certainly be decided eventually in the ECHR.

Link.
Link.

It should be legal and non-coercive and pimps (related) should be executed on sight.

 

[LondonJohn]

Yes, but money is in the equation. That's what makes all the difference. There's a lot of jobs people wouldn't do if they weren't getting paid, no?

Some people are funnier about sexual stuff than others. But plenty of women are quite free with it. Why not get paid for what is essentially a one-night stand if you're part of the latter group? No one is being forced to do anything though if they willingly take a job.

I suppose that an interesting (though obviously simplistic) question could usefully be posed: what proportion of 18-30 year-old women who are financially secure and who do not have substance abuse issues choose to become prostitutes? And/or what proportion of current female sex workers fall into that category?

 

[fuelair]

*shrug* I don't see why it should be illegal. The only reason some people react negatively is only because the taboo (mostly religious) surrounding sex. Eliminate the taboo, and it is about as exciting as paying somebody to clean up your window.

Hopefully - and if you are doing it right - some bit better than that!!!