Paying for sex, should it be illegal?

[Hawk one]

No, it's not. You equate a job like the Blues Brothers playing "Rawhide" in a chicken-wire cage with some gal who has orders to bring home $200 before dawn or get worked over with a sock full of quarters. That's nonsensical.

As someone who remembers that scene rather well, and considering that said Blues Brothers would have been beaten up (probably with far worse things than a sock full of quarters too) if they hadn't played Rawhide*, then it really seems to me that claiming they are different things is getting rather disconnected. I mean, in one case, the prospect of getting beaten up means we need better security; while in the other case, the prospect of getting beaten up means we need to make it illegal. Ponderingturtle just managed to, in one single sentence, show how absurd and ill thought through such a position is.

And frankly, so it is with your general argumentation about exploitation. Yes, the history of mankind is rife with people exploiting other people whenever they get the chance. This is not and will not be ever be exclusive to prostitution; but for some reason you appear to argue that prostitution is the only job where the prospect of abuse is solved by making it illegal (hint: It isn't; quite the opposite way around.). Now, if you were to be consistent in this argument, then we couldn't have any jobs at all, because they -all- are rife with the possibility of abuse. All of them.

But hey, in all of those other cases, the best solution has been to put in a legal framework that protects the workers. True, some countries are better at it than others; and yes, it will never be perfect; But we still strive for getting better at stopping the abuse of the workforce.... Except for prostitution, where said prospect of abuse somehow magically means it should be illegal, even though this also means we're actually making it more difficult for them to be protected that way.

And to think that this is how it should be... Now -that- is absurdism elevated to an artform.

*I mean really, if they'd kept on playing the blues for that audience, that chicken wire would have been torn down, or they'd have waited outside near the touring bus; so yeah, they were definitely playing "Rawhide" for their lives, not their money.

 

[Mark6]

If prostitution becomes legal, will the prices fall to a more manageable level?
(This question is important for my budget.)

Assuming your question refers to US, I suspect the high-end prices would fall somewhat, but average prices would actually rise. Fewer women will be standing on street corners, and more will be placing internet ads.

 

[marplots]

Assuming your question refers to US, I suspect the high-end prices would fall somewhat, but average prices would actually rise. Fewer women will be standing on street corners, and more will be placing internet ads.

I was hoping the supply would outpace the demand, lowering prices. A motivated prostitute could probably service several people an hour. It also seems like a natural "work from home" opportunity for those trying to make ends meet.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against minimum wage or anything. I'd want to pay my employees a reasonable hourly rate. Well, not interns of course. Interns are at least partially compensated for on the job experience.

But let's face facts. Prostitution isn't a very highly skilled job. Low barriers to entry as well. (The double entendres just write themselves on this topic.)

 

[The Don]

I was hoping the supply would outpace the demand, lowering prices. A motivated prostitute could probably service several people an hour. It also seems like a natural "work from home" opportunity for those trying to make ends meet.

Cleanliness issues alone dictate that there needs to be a period between customers. Depending on the customer type I suspect that there is a minimum effective visit time. I think several customers an hour is over optimistic and working from home is IMO unwise, firstly because of neighbours but secondly you probably don't want all of your customers to know where you live in case some of them become a bit obsessive.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against minimum wage or anything. I'd want to pay my employees a reasonable hourly rate. Well, not interns of course. Interns are at least partially compensated for on the job experience.

How very reasonable of you

But let's face facts. Prostitution isn't a very highly skilled job. Low barriers to entry as well. (The double entendres just write themselves on this topic.)

I disagree, I think that to be a good prostitute is a very highly skilled job, or more specifically requires a very rare type of person.

Regardless of the financial inducements, I would find it impossible to have sex with random sexual partners (some or many of whom I am not attracted to) several times a day. Even if I could force myself, I wouldn't be able to do it with a relish that would have them coming back for more.

Being a very good prostitute is probably very difficult and would require a broad range of sexual and customer service skills and probably more than a little physical dexterity and endurance.

 

[Mark6]

I was hoping the supply would outpace the demand, lowering prices. A motivated prostitute could probably service several people an hour. It also seems like a natural "work from home" opportunity for those trying to make ends meet.

After giving it some thought, I decided that Marplot's question cannot be answered, because it is a "planet of the hats" type question. Major legal changes do not happen in vacuum. Laws against prostitution cannot be repealed out of the blue any more than laws against marijuana could be repealed out of the blue. In both cases there are/were deeply entrenched social mores which resist legalization.

The social mores with respect to marijuana have already changed throughout US, and there is still stiff resistance from social institutions (mostly in law enforcement) which benefit from status quo. Likewise, there is no possibility of prostitution being legalized until/unless major changes happen in the way Americans view sex. Basically, US would have to become more like Italy or France. Given that such changes must occur first, there is really no way to tell how many women would choose such line of work, or how many customers they would be willing to service.

 

[marplots]

After giving it some thought, I decided that Marplot's question cannot be answered, because it is a "planet of the hats" type question. Major legal changes do not happen in vacuum. Laws against prostitution cannot be repealed out of the blue any more than laws against marijuana could be repealed out of the blue. In both cases there are/were deeply entrenched social mores which resist legalization.

That was the meta point. Making something legal, by fiat or magic wand, doesn't make it acceptable. One suspects the original law had some basis in public opinion.

And, one of the current fights regarding marijuana legalization is local control over outlets (medical dispensaries and legal grows) in a kind of "legal, but not here" way through zoning and other means. Abortion is another example of something legal that still has a groundswell push-back.

 

[marplots]

"Geez honey, you don't want to get stuck working at Walmart. Why not take that community college class and learn how to give a proper BJ?"

 

[Information Analyst]

For the benefit of those stereotyping would-be prostitutes:

BBC News: 22% of students consider sex work - Swansea University study

"More than a fifth of students have thought about being involved in the sex industry, according to a major research project.

About 6,750 students from across the UK took part in an online study by Swansea University.

It claims nearly 5% of them had actually worked in the sex industry and male students were more likely to become involved than women.

Work ranged from stripping, phone sex chat, erotic dancing to prostitution."

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

As someone who remembers that scene rather well, and considering that said Blues Brothers would have been beaten up (probably with far worse things than a sock full of quarters too) if they hadn't played Rawhide*, then it really seems to me that claiming they are different things is getting rather disconnected. I mean, in one case, the prospect of getting beaten up means we need better security; while in the other case, the prospect of getting beaten up means we need to make it illegal. Ponderingturtle just managed to, in one single sentence, show how absurd and ill thought through such a position is.

And frankly, so it is with your general argumentation about exploitation. Yes, the history of mankind is rife with people exploiting other people whenever they get the chance. This is not and will not be ever be exclusive to prostitution; but for some reason you appear to argue that prostitution is the only job where the prospect of abuse is solved by making it illegal (hint: It isn't; quite the opposite way around.). Now, if you were to be consistent in this argument, then we couldn't have any jobs at all, because they -all- are rife with the possibility of abuse. All of them.

But hey, in all of those other cases, the best solution has been to put in a legal framework that protects the workers. True, some countries are better at it than others; and yes, it will never be perfect; But we still strive for getting better at stopping the abuse of the workforce.... Except for prostitution, where said prospect of abuse somehow magically means it should be illegal, even though this also means we're actually making it more difficult for them to be protected that way.

And to think that this is how it should be... Now -that- is absurdism elevated to an artform.

*I mean really, if they'd kept on playing the blues for that audience, that chicken wire would have been torn down, or they'd have waited outside near the touring bus; so yeah, they were definitely playing "Rawhide" for their lives, not their money.

Miss Dee Pointe can explain it to you.

 

[marplots]

For the benefit of those stereotyping would-be prostitutes:

BBC News: 22% of students consider sex work - Swansea University study

"More than a fifth of students have thought about being involved in the sex industry, according to a major research project.

About 6,750 students from across the UK took part in an online study by Swansea University.

It claims nearly 5% of them had actually worked in the sex industry and male students were more likely to become involved than women.

Work ranged from stripping, phone sex chat, erotic dancing to prostitution."

I knew it!
Internships available.
"Why have sex for free when you can get paid? Don't waste your youthful body flipping burgers when you can flip Johns instead!"

(Working on my ad for Monster.com.)

 

[Belz...]

"Geez honey, you don't want to get stuck working at Walmart. Why not take that community college class and learn how to give a proper BJ?"

There seems to be some misconception of that industry at work, here.

 

[marplots]

There seems to be some misconception of that industry at work, here.

I think someone said it was a skilled craft. I assumed there would be training offered. And it's not like I could do it myself - I'm really bad at sex. Are people just expected to pick it up on their own?

Oh. I forgot about sex ed and all the instructional videos available online. (That's what those are, right?) Could be a place for homeschooling to come into its own.

 

[Belz...]

I think someone said it was a skilled craft.

It sure requires more skill to do properly than flipping burgers. Maybe not as much as sending probes to intercept comets, but I'm sure some do it better than others and can teach said skill. Just because we're talking about sex doesn't seem like a good reason to assume that this line of work is any different.

 

[marplots]

It sure requires more skill to do properly than flipping burgers. Maybe not as much as sending probes to intercept comets, but I'm sure some do it better than others and can teach said skill. Just because we're talking about sex doesn't seem like a good reason to assume that this line of work is any different.

You don't have to tell me, I'm no good at it at all. And yet surprisingly, people all over the country attempt it on a weekly basis, without certification or oversight. They don't call the pros "porn stars" for nothin'.

The current situation is untenable. Amateurs trying to do the work of professionals. Dunning-Kruger writ large. Ghastly to imagine all the heaving and sweating and poor hygiene with so little to show for it.

If we can get prostitution to catch on in a big way, maybe we can limit home-sex to baby making, as the good Lord intended. I shall suggest that to garner the support of the clergy.

 

[Belz...]

You don't have to tell me, I'm no good at it at all. And yet surprisingly, people all over the country attempt it on a weekly basis, without certification or oversight. They don't call the pros "porn stars" for nothin'.

The current situation is untenable. Amateurs trying to do the work of professionals. Dunning-Kruger writ large. Ghastly to imagine all the heaving and sweating and poor hygiene with so little to show for it.

If we can get prostitution to catch on in a big way, maybe we can limit home-sex to baby making, as the good Lord intended. I shall suggest that to garner the support of the clergy.

Again, it seems obvious that you have some sort of bias against the profession, for some reason. Your treatment of the discussion here is telling.

 

[marplots]

Again, it seems obvious that you have some sort of bias against the profession, for some reason. Your treatment of the discussion here is telling.

I hope it is. The point is to map prostitution onto a "regular" job and see what emerges. Whole hog. No restrictions. The full monty.

It's a way to see if the idealism matches practical reality. So, here's another...

"Buster ended up going into the army after homeschooling, but for our daughter Bekka, we encouraged her interests and helped her become a prostitute."

 

[Mark6]

So instead of engaging in hypotheticals, why don't you look at the countries where prostitution is legal, such as aforementioned Italy and France? Or Australia, or New Zealand, etc.

 

[Belz...]

I hope it is. The point is to map prostitution onto a "regular" job and see what emerges. Whole hog. No restrictions. The full monty.

So NOT like other jobs, then ?

It's a way to see if the idealism matches practical reality. So, here's another...

Speculating isn't "matching" anything to reality.

 

[marplots]

So instead of engaging in hypotheticals, why don't you look at the countries where prostitution is legal, such as aforementioned Italy and France? Or Australia, or New Zealand, etc.

Because the hypotheticals come before the decision to legalize or not. We vote based on the future we think the law will create. Fear, unreasonableness, and even crazy hypotheticals are all part of the imagination package. This is especially true when something that has been forbidden is going to now be allowed.

And, the hypotheticals tend to shape the law that emerges. Unless prostitution is going to be entirely unregulated, the fearful guides what will be regulated. So, for example, some age limit might be picked, based on a rejection of the image of a teenager, still in high school, "servicing" his teachers. If that's feared enough, maybe the age will be set at 21 instead of 18.

Finally, even though I'm asserting this is largely unreasonable fears, it helps advocates of legalization because those are the sorts of things they'll have to overcome to get anything passed.

 

[marplots]

So NOT like other jobs, then ?

Is any job? I mean, isn't that why they have different titles?

Speculating isn't "matching" anything to reality.

There's no law yet. This is all speculation. That's the reality, the current feelings society has about prostitution. I'm not a prostitute, so I don't have any inside info, but even if I were, would it still apply after a switch from illegal to legal?