Pay for service firefighters?

[TragicMonkey]

Either way, it's a losing option. People should not have to worry about if the fire department will save their house or not.

And the firefighters shouldn't have to worry about arsonical revenge upon their own houses if they don't fight a fire.

 

[triforcharity]

Just the other day, emergency responders called to the scene of a potential suicide-by-drowning refused to go into the water after the individual. The reason? They had been prohibited from doing water rescues as a cost-cutting measure.

I saw that too. When you read further in the article, (I saw it on www.MSNBC.msn.com) it said that the fire department didn't have the training, nor the gear, to do a water rescue, and the USCG couldn't get their boats into the area.

The chieff said that they would spend the money to get the training.

Sad situation all around.

 

[triforcharity]

And the firefighters shouldn't have to worry about arsonical revenge upon their own houses if they don't fight a fire.

Absolutely true. Here locally, fire fees are part of your yearly insurance. You have to pay it. Even if you don't pay your taxes, we will still save your house.

It's kinda a moral obligation.

 

[TragicMonkey]

What would happen if cops did the same thing, and billed you for their services? People would take the law into their own hands, or simply not report crime. I don't know if I'd bother calling the cops on a murder going on next door, what if I'm wrong and they bill me for the visit? I'd just buy a gun and settle any little problems I have myself, while ignoring everybody else's.

 

[excaza]

Now, some areas have a sort of "subscription fee" for fire services, where homeowners contribute a small annual fee to be included in the fire protection district... I can see that to some degree

Which is the exact same as it coming from your taxes, but people go bananas when tax increases are proposed. Somehow an 'annual fee' (or increase in homeowner's insurance) is better.

(not directed at you, just speaking about people in general)

 

[Travis]

I've been talking to people about incorporating the town. That way we could raise our own local taxes (or a subscription fee) to keep the fire department available for everyone in town.

 

[Rasmus]

What would happen if cops did the same thing, and billed you for their services? People would take the law into their own hands, or simply not report crime. I don't know if I'd bother calling the cops on a murder going on next door, what if I'm wrong and they bill me for the visit? I'd just buy a gun and settle any little problems I have myself, while ignoring everybody else's.

Same with fires, really.

Would I call the fire department if I saw a fire anywhere? Hardly. I wouldn't even call if my own place was on fire - I rent! What little I own wouldn't come to more than a few thousand bucks, which would be easily overshadowed by the bill I'd get for saving the house. How am I supposed to know if my landlord has fire-insurance or if he cares about the house?

 

[TragicMonkey]

Same with fires, really.

Would I call the fire department if I saw a fire anywhere? Hardly. I wouldn't even call if my own place was on fire - I rent! What little I own wouldn't come to more than a few thousand bucks, which would be easily overshadowed by the bill I'd get for saving the house. How am I supposed to know if my landlord has fire-insurance or if he cares about the house?

Set fire to the landlord. Serve him right for not caring, and for owning a house foolishly built of flammable materials.

 

[COLONEL]

Same with fires, really.

Would I call the fire department if I saw a fire anywhere? Hardly. I wouldn't even call if my own place was on fire - I rent! What little I own wouldn't come to more than a few thousand bucks, which would be easily overshadowed by the bill I'd get for saving the house. How am I supposed to know if my landlord has fire-insurance or if he cares about the house?

Well I would hope you would at least carry renters insurance , How do you figure you would be billed ? It would be the property owner.that would have to pay as the property would be in their name. Also you say you would not call the department if you saw a fire . Well if that ever happens and you choose not to call and a person /child should die in that fire because you chose not to call , I hope you will be able to live with your self.

 

[Travis]

Imagine the problems if you call 911 for what you think looks like a fire in a neighbor's place so the fire department shows up to the non-fire but still sticks the neighbor with some multi-thousand dollar minimum showing up fee. What if they tried to sue you for that cost?

 

[COLONEL]

What would happen if cops did the same thing, and billed you for their services? People would take the law into their own hands, or simply not report crime. I don't know if I'd bother calling the cops on a murder going on next door, what if I'm wrong and they bill me for the visit? I'd just buy a gun and settle any little problems I have myself, while ignoring everybody else's.

I hear what you are saying . most towns around where I live have Volunteer firemen which is good becuase towns save money by not having to pay the fireman, but the equipment and training need to be kept up and with budgit cuts all over it is getting harder . the average fire dept gets a new truck every 7 years and depending on how many trucks it adds up . We just got a 1987 tower trck to replace a 1964 ladder truck and that cost us $85,000 dollars and thats used . Diesel is over $4.00 a gallon and it does not take long to burn 75 gallons pumping water at a fire . When you think about it in the long run it is a small price to pay .

 

[COLONEL]

Imagine the problems if you call 911 for what you think looks like a fire in a neighbor's place so the fire department shows up to the non-fire but still sticks the neighbor with some multi-thousand dollar minimum showing up fee. What if they tried to sue you for that cost?

I really doubt that, it would come under no service, no bill and I have heard many fireman say they would rather respond to a false alarm then a fully engulfed fire.My self included

 

[Scott Haley]

I've heard that this system has worked in some places: charge every real estate owner a low annual fee for fire department service. In a given year, most people never need the fire department. If someone who didn't pay the fee has an emergency, ask him if he agrees to be billed for the service, then put out the fire and bill him for the full cost of that. That way, even poor people can afford the annual fee, and won't be afraid to call the fire department.

The firemen let the house burn down in a place where there was a fire department in the city, but no fire department to serve the homes outside of city limits. The city couldn't tax people outside of town, so when the firemen responded to calls outside of city limits, the out-of-towners got that for free. The city asked people who owned property outside of town to pay a low annual fee for service. The homeowner whose house caught fire didn't pay, but he offered to pay the low fee to the firemen when they arrived. They couldn't do that, because no one would pay unless they had an emergency. It would be like letting people buy retroactive car insurance after an accident.

 

[Emet]

The firemen let the house burn down in a place where there was a fire department in the city, but no fire department to serve the homes outside of city limits. The city couldn't tax people outside of town, so when the firemen responded to calls outside of city limits, the out-of-towners got that for free. The city asked people who owned property outside of town to pay a low annual fee for service. The homeowner whose house caught fire didn't pay, but he offered to pay the low fee to the firemen when they arrived. They couldn't do that, because no one would pay unless they had an emergency. It would be like letting people buy retroactive car insurance after an accident.

Yeah. There was a thread about that here. IIRC, part of the issue was that the municipality outside of the coverage area was not taxing its own residents to pay the fee (But I could be wrong-- the thread was pretty long).

 

[TragicMonkey]

Imagine the problems if you call 911 for what you think looks like a fire in a neighbor's place so the fire department shows up to the non-fire but still sticks the neighbor with some multi-thousand dollar minimum showing up fee. What if they tried to sue you for that cost?

You'd have to actually set a fire every time you thought you saw one, to make certain.

Just like how you wouldn't want to report a dead body without slitting its throat first, to ensure you aren't charged with lying to the police in case they're just unconscious.

 

[Travis]

I really doubt that, it would come under no service, no bill and I have heard many fireman say they would rather respond to a false alarm then a fully engulfed fire.My self included

The ambulance company charges you several hundred dollars even if it turns out to be a false alarm and no one goes anywhere. So why would the fire department be different?

 

[TragicMonkey]

The ambulance company charges you several hundred dollars even if it turns out to be a false alarm and no one goes anywhere. So why would the fire department be different?

Well, an ambulance's failure to arrive for an emergency might result in one death, worst-case scenario. A fire truck's failure to arrive might result in multiple deaths and lots of property damage, worst-case scenario. Therefore it would be logical to err on the side of caution with fire services, and remove any financial barriers that might create hesitation to call them. The fire services are more valuable because a fire can affect more people at once.

 

[COLONEL]

The ambulance company charges you several hundred dollars even if it turns out to be a false alarm and no one goes anywhere. So why would the fire department be different?

Are you taliking about a private company or one owned by the town ? Again most of our ambulance services are volunteer and the ones that do charge, will only charge if they provide a service . Here and in most states the law says you can not be charged for something if a service or item was not provided.

 

[Aepervius]

The ambulance company charges you several hundred dollars even if it turns out to be a false alarm and no one goes anywhere. So why would the fire department be different?

This is the everlasting question whether you make everybody pay a bit and make it a social service offered by governement, or you decide to make everybody pay for its own unluck. Fire, Health, Police...

IIRC in France you do not pay for the ambulance (or at least I do not recall paying for it, having beeing transported bleeding and shocked in one after a car decided to plow into me) it is covered by the general social insurance cov erage and hospital cost.

 

[Travis]

Well, an ambulance's failure to arrive for an emergency might result in one death, worst-case scenario. A fire truck's failure to arrive might result in multiple deaths and lots of property damage, worst-case scenario. Therefore it would be logical to err on the side of caution with fire services, and remove any financial barriers that might create hesitation to call them. The fire services are more valuable because a fire can affect more people at once.

That would be logical. But if people were logical they wouldn't have voted for the tax cuts that prompted this talk in the first place.

Are you taliking about a private company or one owned by the town ? Again most of our ambulance services are volunteer and the ones that do charge, will only charge if they provide a service . Here and in most states the law says you can not be charged for something if a service or item was not provided.

It's a private company that has a contract with the county. And charging people just for showing up is common. Tow truck companies will charge you for showing up even if you fix the problem before they arrive.