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Paul Morphy -> Capablanca -> Bobby Fischer

wogoga

Critical Thinker
Joined
Apr 16, 2007
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After having read interesting contributions in the discussion Bobby Fischer Dead I have remembered my own dealing with Bobby Fischer several years ago in the context of reincarnation chains. Because many readers may consider such a hypothesis as abhorrent, I start here a new discussion thread on the same forum instead of infecting the existing one.

In my opinion, in order to understand Bobby Fischer (1943-2008) one must deal with his previous life as José Raúl Capablanca (1888-1942). The crucial tragical event in Capablanca's life was the loss of the world championship to Alexander Alekhine (1892-1946). As the most talented and until then unbeaten champion, Capablanca had to experience that a younger and less talented chess player had gradually but surely surpassed him.

Especially in the light of Bobby Fischer's behaviour when avoiding to defend his title against Karpov, I don't think that

"Although Capablanca was clearly the leading challenger, Alekhine carefully avoided granting a re-match, although a right to a re-match was part of the agreement. Alekhine also managed to arrange that he and Capablanca did not play in the same tournaments for the next several years." (Wikipedia)​
is the whole truth. A world champion cannot avoid granting a re-match to his most serious challenger, if this challenger does not somehow cooperate in avoiding the rematch. Yet Capablanca was frightened at the thought that he could also lose the rematch and unconsciously avoided the possibility of such a further humiliation.

After defeating Capablanca, Alekhine dominated chess and died 1946 in exile as world champion. Alekhine was reborn 1963 as Garri Weinstein (now Garry Kasparov) in Baku, Azerbaijan to an Armenian mother and a Jewish father. Reincarnation makes it understandable that Kasparov considers himself a Russian and that he stayed in Russia even after the break-down of the Soviet Union, when many native Russian artists, scientists, specialists and so on left Russia in order to try a better life abroad.

In any case, the top chess players are an ideal field to test reincarnation, because nobody can become a chess prodigy without having been a top player in a previous live. So it shouldn't be very difficult to find the previous lives of e.g. Anatoli Karpov, Vladimir Kramnik or Viswanathan Anand.

Cheers, Wolfgang
 
Well, my German hasn't improved any over the past few decades, all I know is to count to ten and curse, thus your reincarnation chains link wasn't as helpful as you might have hoped.

But to believe that "nobody can become a chess prodigy without having been a top player in a previous live" (I think you meant "life" not "live") is utter nonsense. That must mean the first few chess players in history were all rotten players of the game.
Anyway, with enough discipline most tasks can be mastered, even ones you have little talent for at first.
As for testing reincarnation, don't think it can be done. Don't think it's real either.
 
Dang, and I thought this thread was going to be about who would have beaten who :(

Well I will go first - Capablanca would have owned Fischer through his sheer flair. Remember I am an unabashed Capablanca fan, and we know American's really cant play chess, so the answer is obvious :)

Oh and just in case - Yes the Terminator would wipe the floor with the monster from Alien
 
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But couldn't Fisher have studied all of Capablanca's games beforehand and altered his strategy accordingly.

Only, in the infinitesimal chance wogoga's right, wouldn't Fisher have been playing with himself?
 
But couldn't Fisher have studied all of Capablanca's games beforehand and altered his strategy accordingly.

Only, in the infinitesimal chance wogoga's right, wouldn't Fisher have been playing with himself?

:boggled:
 
Oh and just in case - Yes the Terminator would wipe the floor with the monster from Alien

This reminds me of one of our favorite conversations--my son and me--called Who Would Win? My son is 9.

He asks, "Who do you think would win, 6 pit-bulls, or Yoda?"

Me: "Yoda. Ok, who would win--Keith Jarrett armed with only a tennis racket, or George Bush?"

etc.
 
I have a child just like it. "Dad, what would you do if you were walking down the street and a woman next to you suddenly has her head explode"

Where does this stuff come from lol
 
I have prime Bobby Fischer beating everyone.

There's a very good chance that in his prime, Fischer was better at Chess than anyone has ever been at anything.
 
In my opinion, in order to understand Bobby Fischer (1943-2008) one must deal with his previous life as José Raúl Capablanca (1888-1942).
I've already done that. What shall I do next? Please respond with green text.
 
That must mean the first few chess players in history were all rotten players of the game.

Actually, that's a quite reasonable supposition. :)


In reality, as Chess evolved from earlier games, those doing the changing were probably masters of whatever form it took that decade, though the very first people to put some rocks on some lines in the dirt probably weren't very good. "My rock punches your rock! I win!"
 
Actually this guy makes a hypothesis that could be analyzed, if not tested. This earlier guy's gamestyle should be essentially identical (as chessmasters see it) in crucial areas to Bobby Fischer's. Is this the case?

I'll hold my breath while waiting. :rolleyes:
 
OF COURSE! I believe the same than you, wogoga. Fischer is Capablanca and Paul Morphy. Perhaps Alejin (Alekhine) is Garri Kasparov. I send to you my salutations y thanks for to formidable foro indiscutible
 
In spite of "who am I?" .... ¿who was Fischer... or Fitzgerald Kennedy? Tanto es así que encandiloba Mr. Alcalde Buster Keaton (Bush) were "el Mio Cid", el Cid Campeador
 
I find the suggestion repulsive:

It seems like your saying that Fischer and Capablanca were not really good players, they were just Morphy in disguise. That it would be impossible to be as good as Fischer or Capablanca without being the incarnation of a previous talented player. Surely Morphy must have been an incarnation of a previous talent (and so on, and so on). Where did the first talent come from? This leaves the conclusion that at some time there were a certain number of people who developed this talent on their own and no one else has been talented enough to do that.

So we are left with 2 different possible situations: the above convoluted one, or that idea that every generation has some talented players. Which one sounds more reasonable?

But in a very limited extent I would agree with you. Capablanca's play was influenced by Morphy, and Fisher's by both. Books written by and games played by Capablanca and Morphy were surely studied by the best players of following generations.

LLH
 
After having read interesting contributions in the discussion Bobby Fischer Dead I have remembered my own dealing with Bobby Fischer several years ago in the context of reincarnation chains. Because many readers may consider such a hypothesis as abhorrent, I start here a new discussion thread on the same forum instead of infecting the existing one.



Ahh, quite nice of you! Thanks! :)




In my opinion, in order to understand Bobby Fischer (1943-2008) one must deal with his previous life as José Raúl Capablanca (1888-1942).



:bwall
 
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