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Patriotism

h.g.Whiz

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h.g.Whiz
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Oct 28, 2007
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I think its odd that we adhere to Einstein's thoughts on physics but neglect his thoughts on humanity. Isn't nationalism the same as patriotism. Does not being a patriot one an enemy of the people or an enemy of the state, neither or both ? Remember if Einstein(German native) had been a patriot then WW II might have had a different outcome. One of Einsteins colleagues was a patriot and he invented mustard gas thinking it would end the war quickly and save lives in the long run.
 
I think you might want to extrapolate your thoughts on this a little more. I have an idea of what you're getting at, but it sounds like you're beating around the bush, and hiding behind Einstein's thoughts. Just come out and say what you mean to say.
 
Einstein being a patriot is irrelevant - He was Jewish, so he would never get the chance to be patriot.

And why would his comments on the humanities be of any real relevance. I dont go to a dentist to get my muffer fixed. Outside his specialty, his opinions are as good and weak as yours or mine
 
I know that huffing paint fumes can be fun, but please- don't do it. It's dangerous and it can ruin your life. Just say no!
 
h.g.Whiz said:
I think its odd that we adhere to Einstein's thoughts on physics but neglect his thoughts on humanity. Isn't nationalism the same as patriotism. Does not being a patriot one an enemy of the people or an enemy of the state, neither or both ? Remember if Einstein(German native) had been a patriot then WW II might have had a different outcome. One of Einsteins colleagues was a patriot and he invented mustard gas thinking it would end the war quickly and save lives in the long run.
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One can believe in the value of love for a spouse or significant other AND believe that divorce is a viable option.

The mistake you are making, IMO, is to equate love of one's country with Nationalism or jingoism. No, all patriotism is no more nationalism than all cars are Fords. Just because OJ Simpson had an unhealthy love for his ex-wife doesn't mean we will all have the same unhealthy love for our significant others.

If you want to go with the WWII motif then I would say that there were many German Patriots who stood up to Hitler and the Nazis and paid with their lives. I love my nation enough that I can only hope I could be so patriotic as to give my life in her defense from an a-hole like Hitler.

The people who marched in the streets to protest policies like those of George Bush are just as capable of patriotism as anyone.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" --Samuel Johnson.

It's worthy to note that Johnson was a patriot. He was never against patriotism. He was against the appeal to patriotism to justify misdeeds.
 
RandFan said:
One can believe in the value of love for a spouse or significant other AND believe that divorce is a viable option.

The mistake you are making, IMO, is to equate love of one's country with Nationalism or jingoism. No, all patriotism is no more nationalism than all cars are Fords. Just because OJ Simpson had an unhealthy love for his ex-wife doesn't mean we will all have the same unhealthy love for our significant others.

If you want to go with the WWII motif then I would say that there were many German Patriots who stood up to Hitler and the Nazis and paid with their lives. I love my nation enough that I can only hope I could be so patriotic as to give my life in her defense from an a-hole like Hitler.

The people who marched in the streets to protest policies like those of George Bush are just as capable of patriotism as anyone.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" --Samuel Johnson.

It's worthy to note that Johnson was a patriot. He was never against patriotism. He was against the appeal to patriotism to justify misdeeds.
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Ok, I get it now.
 
RandFan said:
I love my nation enough that I can only hope I could be so patriotic as to give my life in her defense from an a-hole like Hitler.
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This rings a bit too rehtorical. A small point. I think my sense of morality and my feelings for the plight of others more important than simply my love for my country.
 
RandFan said:
This rings a bit too rehtorical. A small point. I think my sense of morality and my feelings for the plight of others more important than simply my love for my country.
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I love my country as I loved my first house. It's familiar, and it welcomed me for many years... But I left it when I had to, and feel comfortable in any other equivalent accommodation.

For me patriotism is an old-fashioned sentiment that makes no sense in this modern world. I'm a citizen of the World, an European, a Portuguese. Where I live in this tiny spec matters not.
 
Megalodon said:
I love my country as I loved my first house. It's familiar, and it welcomed me for many years... But I left it when I had to, and feel comfortable in any other equivalent accommodation.

For me patriotism is an old-fashioned sentiment that makes no sense in this modern world. I'm a citizen of the World, an European, a Portuguese. Where I live in this tiny spec matters not.
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I like sentimentality. I'll concede that it's often over done. Maudlin rubs me the wrong way as much as the next guy.

I could live in another country but I'm not sure I would be happy there. I could love another woman also but I don't want to. I like what I have and consider myself very, very lucky. I guess in the end it comes down to perspective. So long as the feelings and sentiment aren't harmful then and a person keeps a healthy perspective then I see no problem with love and devotion to anyone or anything.
 
RandFan said:
So long as the feelings and sentiment aren't harmful then and a person keeps a healthy perspective then I see no problem with love and devotion to anyone or anything.
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Nor do I. My feelings about patriotism apply to me. For others, to each hirs own.
 
RandFan said:
This rings a bit too rehtorical. A small point. I think my sense of morality and my feelings for the plight of others more important than simply my love for my country.
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If your country is invaded by a bunch of jackbooted goons following the orders of a guy like Hitler, and it still takes patriotism to make you take up arms against them, I think there is something deeply wrong with you. (I see this is not so in your case; I´m just saying...)


In other words, if something is worth doing, it is worth doing without patriotism. If something is not worth doing without patriotism, patriotism does not make it any more worth doing.


I mean, just imagine Hitler had done his usual "make Germany a great nation again and fulfill our glorious destiny as an Aryan people" shtick, and the people had told him, as one man, "up yours, Adolf, it takes more than waving the flag and rattling down a bunch of buzzwords to make us go to war"... (or picture the same with Emperor Billy II on the eve of WW1, minus the "as an Aryan people" bit of course)
 
Einstein once used a ten thousand dollar grant check as a bookmark, and subsequently lost it. But he was great at theoretical physics, so we should follow his example when managing our personal finances!
 
h.g.Whiz said:
I think its odd that we adhere to Einstein's thoughts on physics but neglect his thoughts on humanity.
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You would find that odd, yes.

I assume if you were worried about cancer, you would go to a concert violinist? After all, if one is a trained expert in one area, such as physics, that naturally gives you authority to speak in all areas of life, such as music, medicine, political science, and architecture, right?
 
drkitten said:
You would find that odd, yes.

I assume if you were worried about cancer, you would go to a concert violinist? After all, if one is a trained expert in one area, such as physics, that naturally gives you authority to speak in all areas of life, such as music, medicine, political science, and architecture, right?
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Doesn't physics apply to music, medicine, architecture etc
 
Chaos said:
In other words, if something is worth doing, it is worth doing without patriotism. If something is not worth doing without patriotism, patriotism does not make it any more worth doing.

I mean, just imagine Hitler had done his usual "make Germany a great nation again and fulfill our glorious destiny as an Aryan people" shtick, and the people had told him, as one man, "up yours, Adolf, it takes more than waving the flag and rattling down a bunch of buzzwords to make us go to war"... (or picture the same with Emperor Billy II on the eve of WW1, minus the "as an Aryan people" bit of course)
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No disagreement. I would refer back to Samuel Johnson who, while a patriot, pointed out that patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels. Nothing of this obviates patriotism of course. Patriotism is in and of itself a motivating factor. However it's not the main one.
 
h.g.Whiz said:
Doesn't physics apply to music, medicine, architecture etc
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Relativity only applies to things moving at extremely high speed relative to that of light. Unless your violin is coming at you at 0.99 lightspeed,.... no.
 
ravdin said:
I know that huffing paint fumes can be fun, but please- don't do it. It's dangerous and it can ruin your life. Just say no!
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Ravdin, FTW.

I have no idea what the OP is about.

I think that Einstein was in favor of a world government (cue scary music and scenes of black helicopters).
I, too am in favor of this in the long run. I would like to see humanity outgrow tribal thinking.

But I don't see it happening in the short run. The EU gives me some hope. It will still take a long time though, and progress will be uneven.
 
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