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Passing Peak Trump?

The whole Bible bit was so over the top that even a lot of the usually gullible Fundies are not buying it.
 
Is there a link to a video of Trump's whole speech at the Value Voters meeting?
MSNBC had video of him saying that the crowd was not booing him when he called Rubio a clown, they were cheering him. He is definitely rattled.
 
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And quite a few evangelicals are making remarks about How Trump never talked about being a Christian until he began to ran for President...to quote Bart Simpson, "Way Too Obvous,Dude".
 
Trump is still going to win the nomination. He's just riding the waves right now. Of course it was never going to be non-stop exciting giant-slaying action.
 
Time for a few laughs. President Trump (@writeintrump) on twitter has been coming up with some good Trump jokes.

https://twitter.com/Writeintrump

I thought I was the only one who was seeing the character of Chauncey Gardner (Being There) in Trump's campaign antics.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/16/1412549/-Trump-becomes-Satire
I am not making this up. In Donald Trump the political campaign has become satire

Chuck Todd, Meet the Press, August 16, 2015: "Who do you talk to for military advice right now?"

TRUMP: "Well, I watch the shows. I mean, I really see a lot of great-- you know, when you watch your show and all of the other shows and you have the generals and ... you have certain people that you like ... "

Compare that to Chauncy Gardiner (played by Peter Sellers in the famous 1979 political satire, Being There):

REPORTER #2: "Sorry to persist, sir, but it would be of great interest to me to know what newspapers you do read?"

CHAUNCEY: "I do not read any newspapers. I watch TV."

TV REPORTER: "...Do you mean, Mr. Gardiner, that you find television's coverage of the news superior to that of the newspapers?

CHAUNCEY: "I like to watch TV."
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Excellent article by Frank Rich on Trump's campaign style. Nothing new, just very well written.

The Importance of Donald Trump
 
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hgc said:
I don't think he's exactly delusional. I think it's more of a case that the truth value of his utterances is not a thing he recognizes as relevant. His motivation is always self-interest. Yes, he may understand on some level the concepts of truth and lying, but he doesn't really get why they matter in human communication.
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Funny and plausible.

Nor do I think it's delusion btw. Just a stream of lies from a compulsive liar.
 
hgc said:
I don't think he's exactly delusional. I think it's more of a case that the truth value of his utterances is not a thing he recognizes as relevant. His motivation is always self-interest. Yes, he may understand on some level the concepts of truth and lying, but he doesn't really get why they matter in human communication.
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So, in other words, you think he's a liar.
 
sunmaster14 said:
So, in other words, you think he's a liar.
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If I wanted to put it that simply, I would have. Yes, he is a liar. But I was describing something more detailed and subtle about his lying. He's a shameless and remorseless liar, which is not the case with all liars. He might not recognize himself as a liar. He might not get that his self-interested statements contrary to the truth are what most of us call lying. He's got defective sociability. The lionization of such a person is a societal defect.
 
hgc said:
If I wanted to put it that simply, I would have. Yes, he is a liar. But I was describing something more detailed and subtle about his lying. He's a shameless and remorseless liar, which is not the case with all liars. He might not recognize himself as a liar. He might not get that his self-interested statements contrary to the truth are what most of us call lying. He's got defective sociability. The lionization of such a person is a societal defect.
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Well, my point is that what you're describing is precisely what I would define as a liar. Perhaps you're trying to distinguish Trump's crude lying from, for example, Hillary's more subtle lying, and I would agree that there's a distinction there. But what you've described in general is how I would distinguish a real liar - a congenital or sociopathic liar - from somebody who simply lies from time to time when it is necessary to avoid painful consequences of admitting the truth.
 
sunmaster14 said:
Well, my point is that what you're describing is precisely what I would define as a liar. Perhaps you're trying to distinguish Trump's crude lying from, for example, Hillary's more subtle lying, and I would agree that there's a distinction there. But what you've described in general is how I would distinguish a real liar - a congenital or sociopathic liar - from somebody who simply lies from time to time when it is necessary to avoid painful consequences of admitting the truth.
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Suit yourself.
 
varwoche said:
As some will say, including members of this forum, when Trump says these fantastically false things, he's not lying; he believes what he's saying. As if being delusional is better than being a liar.
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If the press and public had any sense of humor, they could make this into a 2016 meme. Whomever gets to the mic first in a Trump press conference or speech should open with.... "Have you noticed the number of empty seats tonight? A group of us counted and compared and there are 129 seats still available and no one waiting to get in."

Should this surprise anyone, though? The New Republican Party once had a speaker talking to an empty chair. Maybe Donald's having the same hallucinations.
 
Perhaps I spoke too soon.
The British bookies have started to lengthen Trumps odds enough that he has dropped from second place (just after JEB) to third place (just after Rubio). Still pretty close.
 
hgc said:
If I wanted to put it that simply, I would have. Yes, he is a liar. But I was describing something more detailed and subtle about his lying. He's a shameless and remorseless liar, which is not the case with all liars. He might not recognize himself as a liar. He might not get that his self-interested statements contrary to the truth are what most of us call lying. He's got defective sociability. The lionization of such a person is a societal defect.
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I suspect that Trump simply believes whatever comes out of his own mouth at the time. It is "Trump true", as of right now. That he comes out with something completely at odds with reality, or contradicts himself within days if not minutes, is beside the point. Those utterances are "Trump true" as well. Everything is "Trump true' if he says it is.

It's a case of saying, or attempting to say, what your audience wants to hear at the time. Agree with them to become one of them, and then it is easier to get them to agree with you. Perhaps it's one of his tenets from "The Art of the Deal", I don't know. Certainly seemed to work for him so far with the dim-bulb religious right brigade. But as time goes on and the audience gets wiser, it's starting to look like it really is - inconsistent waffle.

I think Trump may be among the next few candidates to drop out. Peak Trump may actually be Trump Cliff...
 
I think part of Trump's advantage was that he hadn't been in the news much in recent years. Not the way that he was back in the Marla era or when he was going broke. Then he was constantly in the news, especially in New York, but Trump's problem is he doesn't wear well. He's a bit of a jerk and always has been. Eventually that comes through loud and clear.

I think now we can see the strategy the other GOP candidates have been playing; the best way to counter Trump is to just let him keep talking. Nominated? I'll be surprised if even participates in the Republican Presidential Convention which is still a long eleven months away.
 
Norman Alexander said:
I suspect that Trump simply believes whatever comes out of his own mouth at the time. It is "Trump true", as of right now. That he comes out with something completely at odds with reality, or contradicts himself within days if not minutes, is beside the point. Those utterances are "Trump true" as well. Everything is "Trump true' if he says it is.

It's a case of saying, or attempting to say, what your audience wants to hear at the time. Agree with them to become one of them, and then it is easier to get them to agree with you. Perhaps it's one of his tenets from "The Art of the Deal", I don't know. Certainly seemed to work for him so far with the dim-bulb religious right brigade. But as time goes on and the audience gets wiser, it's starting to look like it really is - inconsistent waffle.

I think Trump may be among the next few candidates to drop out. Peak Trump may actually be Trump Cliff...
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The salient (to me) characteristic in everything Trump says is his use of the word, and meme, "deal"- everything is a deal, foreign policy is making deals with leaders of other countries, healthcare is a deal with hospitals and insurers, etc. This might be a good way of looking at things, I dunno...but it certainly doesn't seem to leave much room for principles (or even "principle" as a concept). And the biggest deal of all is the way he's playing Monty Hall with the American people, selling the sizzle and hiding the steak- " here you go, America, you can have what you see there on the stage, your healthcare, your foreign policy, your tax structure, all just as you see them. OR...you can have what's behind Door #1, my plans for all those things- but you can't see them until you own them. So...what's it gonna be?"
 
newyorkguy said:
I think part of Trump's advantage was that he hadn't been in the news much in recent years. Not the way that he was back in the Marla era or when he was going broke. Then he was constantly in the news, especially in New York, but Trump's problem is he doesn't wear well. He's a bit of a jerk and always has been. Eventually that comes through loud and clear.

I think now we can see the strategy the other GOP candidates have been playing; the best way to counter Trump is to just let him keep talking. Nominated? I'll be surprised if even participates in the Republican Presidential Convention which is still a long eleven months away.
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Real question might become if Trump decides on a third party run. (I think his signed statement he will not do that is not worth the paper it is written on.If he decides to run,He will scream I WUZ ROBBED and consider the agreement null and void).
He does not have the chance of snowball in hell of winning, but a very good chance of taking 4 to 5% of the Republican vote, which would cost the GOP the Swing states and the election.
 
turingtest said:
The salient (to me) characteristic in everything Trump says is his use of the word, and meme, "deal"- everything is a deal, foreign policy is making deals with leaders of other countries, healthcare is a deal with hospitals and insurers, etc. This might be a good way of looking at things, I dunno...but it certainly doesn't seem to leave much room for principles (or even "principle" as a concept). And the biggest deal of all is the way he's playing Monty Hall with the American people, selling the sizzle and hiding the steak- " here you go, America, you can have what you see there on the stage, your healthcare, your foreign policy, your tax structure, all just as you see them. OR...you can have what's behind Door #1, my plans for all those things- but you can't see them until you own them. So...what's it gonna be?"
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To a degree Trump is right....every diplomatic agreement is a "deal",but it's a totally different kind of deal then the ones Trump is used to.
THe problem with principal is at what point what does sticking to a principle become fantacism and refusal to compromise?
 
Norman Alexander said:
I suspect that Trump simply believes whatever comes out of his own mouth at the time. It is "Trump true", as of right now. That he comes out with something completely at odds with reality, or contradicts himself within days if not minutes, is beside the point. Those utterances are "Trump true" as well. Everything is "Trump true' if he says it is.
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New York is full of guys like Donald Trump. They spell "belief" with an 'o' as in o-p-p-o-r-t-u-n-i-t-y. Like a former boss of mine once said, referring to charges and counter-charges being hurled between warring departments (within the same company): "We believe what we need to believe when we need to believe it. When the situation changes, we believe something else." This was his response after I objected (in private) to a statement he had made about another department. He said they had done x-y-z and it just about destroyed a business project we were involved in. I said to him, "But Boss...ummm, I don't think they really did that." First words out of his mouth were, spoken with a big grin, "That doesn't matter. We believe they did it." Then he winked and explained to me, "We believe what we need to believe yada-yada-yada"

Donald Trump is from the same corporate culture. Even worse actually because he's a New York real estate developer. They are the absolute worst when it comes to ethics or integrity.
 
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