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PASS ID Act

INRM

Philosopher
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Anyone heard of this? Sounds like the REAL ID act all over again
 
Actually no. It really seems to clarify much of the Real ID act, and simply standardizes the system of State IDs. This is a good thing, which means that over time you won't have to worry that the guy in the gas station in Texas won't let you buy a 6 pack of beer because your on vacation from Missouri and he doesn't trust your ID. We need a unified system, and this helps set one up.

That aside it removes some of the ambiguity from the Real ID Act and lays out a series of requirements that from my experience most states follow anyway.

It simply lays out information that must be on an identification card, and what types of documents are sufficient to allow you to get one. For most people this will be a birth certificate, a SS card, and a current bill. Simple as that.
 
I would personally be in favor of a standardized ID system that ironed out some of the ambiguities. I do not mind state based personalization on the cards, but there is a tipping point when the differences are annoying to someone who once had to ID people for a living. Some state IDs looked easier to forge than my middle school ID was. Or at least did ten years ago.
 
The Fallen Serpent said:
I would personally be in favor of a standardized ID system that ironed out some of the ambiguities. I do not mind state based personalization on the cards, but there is a tipping point when the differences are annoying to someone who once had to ID people for a living. Some state IDs looked easier to forge than my middle school ID was. Or at least did ten years ago.
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I understand that. Some look really cheap, but I hated the time I was in Texas buying a 6 pack (I was 27 at the time) and the guy went to the back were a cop was hanging out, and had the nerve to come back and say, "Well we'll let you get away with it this time, but next time you need a Texas ID." Seriously?

A standard would take away the excuse for much of this, and like I said most states already meet the standards.
 
Agreed. Also, refusing your ID might be illegal. If I remember correctly that was the case in Oregon. There are specific legal types of ID that must be accepted. State ID and DL were included in that list. As were passports. I am unsure if it was specific Oregon regulations or Federal regulations however. It annoyed the military folk that military IDs were specifically not on the list and that the company worked for had an (oft ignored) policy of not accepting such IDs. In all fairness the policy was created when military IDs were comparable to elementary school IDs and "fakes" could be bought for a few dollars as long as you knew one of the guys who printed them out. At some recent point the services shifted focus and the IDs are in line with or more secure than state IDs.

ETA: Thinking over the situation, I believe Federal regulations mandated that all State IDs are given equal weight in the US. The Oregon regulation specified state ID and passports, meaning that all states IDs had to be given equal treatment since Federal regulations disallowed separate treatment of state IDs. We had a user manual with pictures of all State, District, Territorial and Federal IDs. By company policy I could accept a police badge as proof of ID to use a Credit Card but state law meant that same badge could not be used as defense if I had accidentally sold cigarrettes to a minor.
 
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Real and ubiquitous IDs will go a long ways toward eliminating: 1) voter fraud, and 2) illegal aliens.

Want to sign a petition? Show your ID.

Want a job? Show your ID. Good ID? Get a job.
 
The problem I have with this is that it has an RFID chip in it, which can allow all people who need to carry around ID to be tracked wherever they go.

This ID would double as a drivers license, so we'd basically be required to carry this thing on us wherever we go, and it would allow us to be tracked.

I don't like the idea of a government following us wherever we go, it's not a good sign for a country that prides itself in valuing civil rights.
 
I was wondering when RFID chips would rear their ugly heads.

INRM said:
The problem I have with this is that it has an RFID chip in it, which can allow all people who need to carry around ID to be tracked wherever they go..
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The abject limitations of RFID chips have been explained to you so many times and by so many people; yet you still keep vapouring about them. Frankly I begin to worry about you.

Don't want your card to be read by sooper sekrit tracking readers about town? Wrap it in tinfoil until you want to use it.

Don't want your card to be read by people who might make a note and pass it on to the government? Well now that card is not going to be very useful then is it, because you won't be able to show it to anyone just in case.

Frankly you should be more worried about the DNA tracking cutlery that has been secretly introduced thanks to the miracle of Nanotechnology.
 
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INRM said:
The problem I have with this is that it has an RFID chip in it, which can allow all people who need to carry around ID to be tracked wherever they go.
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I assume this is a reference to this line:
‘(9) A common machine-readable technology, containing the data elements available on the face of a driver’s license or identification card. A person’s social security number may not be included in these data elements.
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I know that RFID tech is a very real possibility and is being considered, but so are magnetic strips and barcodes. I would prefer one of the later for the very reason that even passive RFID chips can be tracked with the appropriate technology. I know California and Oregon IDs can be machine read. I found this to be highly advantageous with no known issues that have come up in practicality.
 
The Fallen Serpent said:
passive RFID chips can be tracked
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Don't you start as well ;) Passive RFID chips have ranges measured in a few centimetres, usually. Some of them can be read at a range of feet, but in both cases that's in totally optimal reading conditions. By sticking them in a pocket, or in a wallet, or under your skin, or wherever, you're going to smack that range down to very nearly zero, no matter how super-sensitive your reader is. Active chips are a different story, but you're quite unlikely to find them in something like an ID card because that's adding bulk and expense to provide a facility that nobody needs or wants.
 
I should clarify, that such capability is severely weak and may never become significant to the point of a real worry. More I doubt the technology will stay this way and would prefer to err on the side of privacy. Hence my preference for the other technologies.

I would not oppose PASS ID on these grounds alone, and I so far support the act. I would just prefer the already used technology that has less potentional for future manipulation as advances are made.

Yes, I know bar codes can be read at a distance at times too.
 
The Fallen Serpent said:
I doubt the technology will stay this way and would prefer to err on the side of privacy.
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That is probably a fair comment. But in the future, who knows what better, foolproof technology might come along to track innocent citizens? In the meantime however everyone cheerfully carries mobile phones around with them, usually without thinking twice that they could be tracked - and those things have tracking ranges of kilometres. Sure, you can turn your phone off. You could also leave your ID card at home. Unless you planned to use it, in which case the location of that usage could just as easily be logged when the card is verified.

I just fail to see the special difficulty that RFID chips present, versus all the other things we do on a daily basis, unless you start invoking improbable reading scenarios, or future technology which may or may not materialise, and which in any case isn't available for the foreseeable future.

Edit: To be a bit more on-topic, I generally feel uncomfortable about ID cards on the whole. It has a bit too much a of "Show me your papers!" feel to it. But in the USA where people often seem to have state issued ID cards, it seems to make sense to standardise them for the sort of reasons that FullFlavorMenthol gave.
 
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I agree that cell phones are a much greater and realistic privacy risk. The big difference is the near legal necessity of an ID in many instances. When I go for a walk at night police do not stop and ask me for my cell phone. Admittedly, they no longer stop and ask me for my ID either. I was younger then. Now they just ask what I am doing then go about their business when I fail to admit to drug trafficking, prostitution or casing locations.

RFID chips are not something I intend to put any effort into worrying about. More that when the opportunity presents itself I would support other similar technologies that seemingly lack the same possible issues while still providing the nearly same level of utility.
 
Another problem with this act is that it imposes much lower financial loads on the states than the REAL ID act did, which makes it much more likely to pass.

As for broadcast range of RFID tags, that can always change. Technology does improve with time. Radars from the 1940's didn't have anywhere near the broadcast range available for the antenna size and power-requirements, than a radar developed in the 1950's.


The Fallen Serpent,

I agree that cell phones are a much greater and realistic privacy risk. The big difference is the near legal necessity of an ID in many instances. When I go for a walk at night police do not stop and ask me for my cell phone.
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Exactly
 
I'd think we'd be more likely to lean toward biometrics rather than RFID technology.

Virtually impossible to counterfeit, from what little I've read on the subject.
 
From a State's Rights point of view, creating a federal ID raises fewer issues than regulating state IDs.
 
I.. could care less what the states want in this debate. If you ever have to work in a gas station, start looking at the different ID's. Honestly, standardizing it would be easier because I would know roughly where to look *every* time since our scanner only reads WA/OR ID's. (Probably Idaho, but I have yet to see an Idaho ID.)

(Besides, typically, the states get money for agreeing sooo.)
 
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