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Pardons

In the All the President's Lawyers podcast, the host and guest agreed that Donald Trump seems to have a lot of solidarity with corrupt people as his pardons are very bipartisan.

ETA: But they say that this is the type of disgusting behaviour that pretty much all presidents engage in.
 
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angrysoba said:
In the All the President's Lawyers podcast, the host and guest agreed that Donald Trump seems to have a lot of solidarity with corrupt people as his pardons are very bipartisan.

ETA: But they say that this is the type of disgusting behaviour that pretty much all presidents engage in.
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No reasonable person can think Trump's behavior has been anything like what any other President has done. He is the only President who took office without having previous public service in lower office, the military or often both. Other Presidents have been misguided or mistaken; Trump is the only one who thought the sole purpose of the entire government was to devote itself to his personal interests.
 
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angrysoba said:
In the All the President's Lawyers All the Presidents' Lawyers podcast, the host and guest agreed that Donald Trump seems to have a lot of solidarity with corrupt people as his pardons are very bipartisan.

ETA: But they say that this is the type of disgusting behaviour that pretty much all presidents engage in.
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FTFY ;)

I think Biden should keep Cipollone on staff to be part of anything involving Trump: it seems the man managed to keep Trump from doing some very damaging things. Biden could use someone who knows how to talk to Trump.
 
Bob001 said:
No reasonable person can think Trump's behavior has been anything like what any other President has done. He is the only President who took office without having previous public service in lower office, the military or often both. Other Presidents have been misguided or mistaken; Trump is the only one who thought the sole purpose of the entire government was to devote itself to his personal interests.
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I think they only mean that other presidents of both parties have pardoned corrupt politicians and businessmen.
 
As I understand it, the US follows the Separation of powers principal. How does this gel with Presidential pardons?

Yes, I know a President can grant pardons, but how is this justified other than "he just can"?
 
Included in Trump's pardons were

1. Judge Jeannine Pirro's ex-husband, Albert Pirro, a former real estate associate of Trump's, who was convicted on conspiracy and tax evasion charges.

2. Paul Erickson, the former boyfriend of Russian spy Maria Butina. He was convicted of wire fraud and money laundering.

3. Kenneth Kurson, a longtime friend and associate of Jared Kushner and Rudy Giuliani was pardoned for cyberstalking his girlfriend .

4. Sholam Weiss had his 835 year sentence for a $450 million mortgage and insurance fraud scheme commuted with the backing of Alan Dershowitz and Trump attorney Jay Sekulow. This was even after Weiss has jumped bail and fled to Austria in 2000 before being captured.
 
angrysoba said:
In the All the President's Lawyers podcast, the host and guest agreed that Donald Trump seems to have a lot of solidarity with corrupt people as his pardons are very bipartisan.

ETA: But they say that this is the type of disgusting behaviour that pretty much all presidents engage in.
Click to expand...

One might argue that rich people have a strong feeling of class solidarity that cuts through partisan lines.

The same podcast pointed out that a poor person serving time getting a pardon is like getting struck by lightning. It's a public spectacle, like the pardoning of the Thanksgiving Turkey. The rich, however, have a much better chance of being pardoned for their white collar crimes, be it political corruption or financial scams or whatever else.
 
lionking said:
As I understand it, the US follows the Separation of powers principal. How does this gel with Presidential pardons?

Yes, I know a President can grant pardons, but how is this justified other than "he just can"?
Click to expand...

Even as a burgeoning democracy in 1776 America was not immune to historical traditions as to what power a head of state should have and "pardons" in various concepts/implementations go back a long time. The idea that the "Big Seat" should be able to grant mercy is not something America pulled from the aether.

Not to say that it wasn't controversial, even at the time. At the Virginia Ratifying Convention George Mason was one of only 3 delegates who refused to sign the Constitution, based partially on his opposition to the President being given a pardon powder.
 
This is as fitting as can be

Among Trump's pardons is the guy involved in the USC admission scandal, who paid people to take the SAT and Community College classes for his daughter.

Of course, the White House lied about the case, just inventing facts such as the fact the daughter currently has a 3.9 gpa (she's not even enrolled anymore) and claiming that the pardon was supported by people who do not know they support it.

https://www.latimes.com/california/...rdons-usc-father-in-college-admission-scandal

Lying, cheating, corruption. Yep, that's a Trump pardon in a nutshell.
 
lionking said:
As I understand it, the US follows the Separation of powers principal. How does this gel with Presidential pardons?

Yes, I know a President can grant pardons, but how is this justified other than "he just can"?
Click to expand...

pgwenthold said:
This is as fitting as can be

Among Trump's pardons is the guy involved in the USC admission scandal, who paid people to take the SAT and Community College classes for his daughter.

Of course, the White House lied about the case, just inventing facts such as the fact the daughter currently has a 3.9 gpa (she's not even enrolled anymore) and claiming that the pardon was supported by people who do not know they support it.

https://www.latimes.com/california/...rdons-usc-father-in-college-admission-scandal

Lying, cheating, corruption. Yep, that's a Trump pardon in a nutshell.
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Typical Trump, lying when he doesn't even need to.
 
psionl0 said:
You can say that again.

The POTUS can start wars, set off nuclear devices - in effect start a global thermo-nuclear war and what gets your knickers in a twist? Presidential pardons.
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You think they are separate issues. In contrast, how he uses his ability to pardon is a reflection of who he is.

When he pardons someone convicted of $400million mortgage fraud, you can see what he considers important, for example.
 
psionl0 said:
You can say that again.

The POTUS can start wars, set off nuclear devices - in effect start a global thermo-nuclear war and what gets your knickers in a twist? Presidential pardons.
Click to expand...


You're right of course. :o

Why should we worry about dental hygiene when bowel cancer is a greater danger to your health?
 
pgwenthold said:
How about the fact that a large number of the pardoned are politicians who have been convicted of corruption?

Ootta love how the group that wants to "drain the swamp" would think the way to do that is to pardon politicians convicted of corruption. Pretty clearly they have a different concept of what constitutes the political swamp.
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Requiring conviction wouldn't stop this scenario. It would stop most cases where a president orders people to do something against the law and then pardons them preemptively. If a US attorney was worried about a pardon, said attorney could wait to charge until the end of a presidential term. And, anyone doing anything unlawful for a president would have to risk that chance that for personal or political reasons, the pardon might not come through.
 
Dr. Keith said:
I wonder who they paid for their pardon and whether their refund request will be expedited.
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I wonder if it was an out-and-out scam on Joe, or whoever told him he could advocate for a pardon just wasn't successful in bending Trump's ear.
 
Was surprised Ghislaine Maxwell wasn't on the list. Also, how was Joe Exotic so sure about his probable pardon? Were certain monetary considerations in play?
 
Susheel said:
Was surprised Ghislaine Maxwell wasn't on the list. Also, how was Joe Exotic so sure about his probable pardon? Were certain monetary considerations in play?
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That's what makes me think he got scammed. Maybe someone was telling him it was all good to go, but was really just pumping him for cash.
 
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