Paranormal detection

[Lanzy]

I look forward to you ignoring the suggestions.

.

Disappointment does not await you.

 

[Robert Oz]

I will not do that (quoting myself) and that is a promise

reason1,

Please make your next post your long detailed one and include the following:

1. Your test protocol.

The End!

PS Keep in mind, your test protocol MUST:

1. State exactly what you claim you can do.
2. Define all terms precisely.
3. Include measures that eliminate any type of confirmation bias.
4. Include measures to objectively count both hits and misses.
5. Include a success rate.
6. Have NO judges. Results must be self-evident. Again, NO judges!

 

[Ron_Tomkins]

No valid claim.
No protocol.
No test.
Ever.
No dollars.

But hopefully some education.

Education for him or for us?
I am certainly learning a bit more about when to stop trying with these people

I would be very surprised if they ever learned something instead

 

[reason1]

No, it isn't!

Your protocol must eliminate all problems raised in this thread. You must show what controls will be in place to eliminate every single problem raised including:

1. Controlling and filming the volume of people required;
2. Objectively determining whether they are actively or passively staring;
3. Objectively determining whether they are looking before you move your head;
4. Developing a method to count the misses; and
5. Developing a protocol where results will be self-evident (i.e. no judging required!).

Long post answering these questions please. If these questions are not addressed, I, for one, will not waste any more time on this thread.

Hi Robert,
I'm not saying that i'll be able to solve all the problems by myself, all i have to do is, to tell how the protocol is going to be logically tested, so based on that, other members here can begin/continue suggestions on every possible protocol/detail/problem.

I do find your efforts commendable, Robert Oz. But do you really think this protocol has any chance of being approved by Randi? And do you really think reason1 will ever do more than addressing tangential issues - which he has done almost the entire thread - when addressing the core issues would very likely suggest even to him that he is deluded about the nature of what he claims happens?
[/Passive aggressiveness]

No valid claim.

Are you sure ?!....what about the following post of yours :

thanks guys/girls,

I want to ask a question first :
does the ability to detect when and the exact location of the person who stares at me, whether from the sides, behind or above count as paranormal in regard to the challenge ?
...

If you claim you could do it significantly more successful than what chance suggests, I would think the JREF would accept your application - with media profile and academic support.

However, only JREF Staff can give official answers: challenge@randi.org

And you're still here ! .

Hi GzuzKryzt,
since you are the most demanding here i shall answer your questions first :

Man....I've already answered these questions in my argument in page 2 !.

Reason1 doing one of the simple self-tests proposed here would go a longer way than any discussion.

Longer way than what? Asking him the same three questions every few hours like you did yesterday?

He has already defined "staring" as he sees it (pardon the pun) - more than once in my opinion.

Honestly, what more do you want from the guy?

--------------------------------------

I think you can rule out the US Army being interested, they are already testing stuff that really works & can be demonstrated...

Hi,
well....thanks,i didn't know about that....but a system based on audible signals by the first (perhaps fatal ) shot.....mmm...my detection system can do much better job than that !.

reason1 said: "I will not do that (quoting myself) and that is a promise"

So we still await your long promised detailed post that will answer all our questions.

Ward

Hi, i really appreciate your anticipation ,but maybe i'll also post some news/responses before the promised post

You think you are going to be able to get sponsors willing to pay the cost of the experiment?

Good luck with that.


You can bring whatever observers to the test you like. Bear in mind, though, that the results of the test must be self-evident, so neither they nor anyone else (including the JREF observer) can be called upon to judge the results, only to confirm that the previously agreed protocol was followed and that the success criteria either were or were not reached.


Good luck with that too.

All this is a bit premature though. You still have to produce a workable protocol which will be acceptable to JREF, not to mention obtain an academic affadavit and a media profile.

hi Pixel42, thanks for this post of yours ,it's objective.

I'll just order a new irony meter, will I?






You may want to rethink again. Third time lucky is what some say.

I really don't get the irony ,please clarify more .

This looks like a set-up for you to waffle on about your pet hypothesis on various topic - Not just a derail but a major train wreck waiting to happen.

My claim. - Fine as long as it is purely what you claim to be able to do and with what success.

Conscious/subconscious levels. - There is no interest in your pet ideas on consciousness. It is irrelevant to the test. Results should be self evident and not open to interpretation, least of all your interpretation. Open another thread on this topic if you must.

are you kidding me ?!!!!. this very important issue in regard to any suggested protocol , it will eliminate unnecessary protocols

Telepathy. Also irrelevant. No one cares how your super-power works. It can be invisible pink pixies carrying messages written in hieroglyphics on gold tablets transported in ethereal shopping bags as far as we care. Results should be self evident. How that happens is of no importance. Open another thread on this topic if you must

Telepathy is paranormal , and MDC is all about the paranormal !!!!!!!!!.

How we see things. How this happens is irrelevant. The self evident fact that people are actually seeing the results is all that's important. We neither know nor care how you think people see things. Open another thread on this topic if you must

again it's for eliminating unnecessary protocols !!!!!!!!.

Staring and why it's testable in regard to my claim. Just tell us what you consider to be staring and how that is to be assessed. Why is of no importance. Open another thread on your opinions of its testability if you must

are you still kidding , i will not be able to apply for the challenge if i can not prove that my protocol is testable in the first place !!!!!!!!!.

Acting/simulating staring in the lab, and why it's untestable. We don't want to know what is untestable only what can be tested. Untestable elements have no place in your MDC. Open another thread on this topic if you must

also important in regard to suggested protocols and it's testebility!!!!!!!!!!!.

What is self-evident and what is not. We only want to know what parts of your protocol are self evident. Those that require interpretation cannot be part of your protocol. Open another thread on the topic of what is not if you must

again important when discussing my protocol testability !!!!!!!!!!!!.

Confirmation/Disconfirmation bias. You can tell us what parts of the test you have designed to remove bias if you wish, even though It's not needed. Rest assured that if there is any indication of allowing bias there will be many here to point that out. We do not need or require your ideas on what you think bias is.

although i said before that confirmation bias is somewhat off-topic, i'll not drop it from the discussion, because it's important skeptecism term and also will add to my credibility applying for the MDC.
Also i'm not the one who brought the confirmation bias to this topic , in fact i didn't know about it until other members here referred to it, so you have no right to say that "We do not need or require your ideas on what you think bias is" !!!!!!!

Reflexes. All humans have them. No need to discuss in detail. How quickly you can detect staring should be covered elsewhere. Other peoples reflexes should not be an issue. Open another thread on this topic if you must.

i have nothing else to say to you !!!!!.

I've shortened your long post a little.

I look forward to you ignoring the suggestions.

.

"we" "us"....you are using other to gain more security.
H3LL, obviously you have a psychological problem here , just unsubscribe as you did before (as when the lion leaves his prey when he is too irritated to fight)
i don't have time for your irrational arguments , i will have to ignore you

PS: regarding the money...i'm sure that i'll be getting much more money than the challenge million, also i'm thinking maybe i should donate the money back to the JREF, maybe i'll make a deal with James Randi for joining him heading the JREF, it will surely undo any bad reputation
I'll not let the JREF go down after what this amazing man did to this world by revealing the truth about hoaxes/fraud
As i said i'm skeptic too and also I had enough dealing with evil and will NOT allow those evil forces to win in this world , THAT IS A PROMISE .

 

[Jeff Corey]

Reason 1,
You ought to check out the thread here on General Science and the Paranormal titled "Developing Infra-vision". Jozen-Bo and VisionFromFeeling have super powers, too. You guys could join up and have a clubhouse and call yourselves The Fantastic Three!
You'd have get some snappier names, though.

 

[Ravenwood]

Hi,
well....thanks,i didn't know about that....but a system based on audible signals by the first (perhaps fatal ) shot.....mmm...my detection system can do much better job than that !.

If you are really that confident, there is a really easy method to test this (not to mention entertaining)...
http://www.simunition.com/cartridges/cartridges_en.php
I would be willing to spring for a box of 5.56, & I would be willing to donate the use of my panther arms SASS for the test...

 

[Robert Oz]

Hi Robert,
I'm not saying that i'll be able to solve all the problems by myself, all i have to do is, to tell how the protocol is going to be logically tested, so based on that, other members here can begin/continue suggestions on every possible protocol/detail/problem.

<snip>

Very long post, but still no protocol. I'm done here until you post a protocol that we can discuss.

 

[desertgal]

PS: regarding the money...i'm sure that i'll be getting much more money than the challenge million, also i'm thinking maybe i should donate the money back to the JREF, maybe i'll make a deal with James Randi for joining him heading the JREF,

At the rate you are going, the MDC will be gone, and Randi will have donated the MDC million back to his foundation before you have even developed a protocol.

I'll not let the JREF go down

Yeah. I don't think that was a concern to begin with.

As i said i'm skeptic too and also I had enough dealing with evil and will NOT allow those evil forces to win in this world , THAT IS A PROMISE .

Great. We all feel much safer now.

 

[H3LL]

Disappointment does not await you.

Your psychic powers exceed anything we are likely to witness from R1.





He seems determined to delight us with his pet ideas on consciousness, telepathy, reflexes and how to see. I can hardly wait.

R1 claims to have read the MDC rules but seems to have missed this bit:

Rule #3 ........ We have no interest in theories nor explanations of how the claimed powers might work; if an applicant provides us with such material, it will be ignored and discarded.

I'm now on ignore so maybe someone else would like to remind him.

 

[Miss_Kitt]

Ron,
If I remember my Looney Tunes, the toad was a frog (Michigan J. Frog, to be precise) and he sang Varsity Rag.

Not that I'm a pathetic nerd and pedantic nit-picker or anything.


ETA: Arrrgh
Not only that, but I'm an incorrect pathetic nerd and pedantic nit-picker. It was the Michigan Rag. Duuuh! As in Michigan J. Frog.
Note to self: Google first, not later.

[OT discussion]
He also sang "Ragtime Gal" and a couple of other songs; and he danced. My favorite cartoon of All Time!!!

I freely admit to being somewhat of a WB nerd--since I have a kid, I had to find viewing I thought was appropriate for her. And you know what? Wile E. Coyote is much, much funnier when you're an adult than when you're a kid.

Plus there's one Yosemite Sam / Bugs Bunny cartoon that makes me laugh until I cry, every time. I'm chuckling just thinking about it.

[/OT discussion]

ETA -- apologies to those that already posted on this topic. I responded to foolmewunz's post when I read it.
But he's right, Chuck Jones ROCKS!!! And, on the list of super CJ cartoons, how about the one with the musical notes? don't remember its name right now.


PS to reason1: I'll chip in with protocol discussions once you have anything that's remotely testable.

 

[reason1]

Very long post, but still no protocol. I'm done here until you post a protocol that we can discuss.

C'mon man...be patient,some people here are ready to hang for one tiny little mistake.

If you are really that confident, there is a really easy method to test this (not to mention entertaining)...
http://www.simunition.com/cartridges/cartridges_en.php
I would be willing to spring for a box of 5.56, & I would be willing to donate the use of my panther arms SASS for the test...

OK...thanks, i will add Simunition to my contact list

Your psychic powers exceed anything we are likely to witness from R1.





He seems determined to delight us with his pet ideas on consciousness, telepathy, reflexes and how to see. I can hardly wait.

R1 claims to have read the MDC rules but seems to have missed this bit:




I'm now on ignore so maybe someone else would like to remind him.

Hi H3LL,
good job forcing me to respond to you .
And where i did ever say that i'm going to explain how telepathy works , i myself don't know.
also i suggest, you change your avatar ,it's offensive to yourself !!.

 

[Jeff Corey]

This one?http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3274382137005127076

 

[Miss_Kitt]

No, but that's a great one. It's the Wild West high-wire act. I just lose it every time I watch it...now I have to find a DVD with the ship cartoon, though. Thanks!!

 

[fromdownunder]

Hi H3LL,
good job forcing me to respond to you .
And where i did ever say that i'm going to explain how telepathy works , i myself don't know.
also i suggest, you change your avatar ,it's offensive to yourself !!.

Wow H3ll, I did not realise what your powers were - you "forced" the Troll to respond to you. Maybe you should apply for the $1M. Poor Reason1, so easily manipulated by somebody who has REAL power.

And, while I realise that it is futile to ask, Reason1, where exactly, in what you responded to, did H3LL even suggest that you could explain how telepathy works. Please use standard definitions of words, not definitions that you make up on the spot. Oh, wait, it only happened in your pathetic attempt to change the subject and remain off topic.

Getting back on topic, POST YOUR PROTOCOL. Or go away and play with your other 10 year old friends.

Norm

Please be civil and polite.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: prewitt81

 

[reason1]

And, while I realise that it is futile to ask, Reason1, where exactly, in what you responded to, did H3LL even suggest that you could explain how telepathy works. Please use standard definitions of words, not definitions that you make up on the spot. Oh, wait, it only happened in your pathetic attempt to change the subject and remain off topic.

it's very obvious man... the rule states:

Rule #3 ........ We have no interest in theories nor explanations of how the claimed powers might work; if an applicant provides us with such material, it will be ignored and discarded.

And i said that my ability is powered by telepathy.
But H3LL claims that i'm violating this rule in the following post:

R1 claims to have read the MDC rules but seems to have missed this bit:

Rule #3 ........ We have no interest in theories nor explanations of how the claimed powers might work; if an applicant provides us with such material, it will be ignored and discarded.

But i didn't recall saying that i will explain how this telepathic power works.
It's quite obvious man....No offense OK ????!!!!

Also ,it's not my fault that, when i'm trying to make my pet understand something obvious to humans and it doesn't get it ,but it's perhaps my fault if i keep trying to make it understand when i'm sure that my pet will never ever get it .
REALLY REALLY REALLY No offense OK ????
And please don't call me names without giving any evidence.

 

[Pixel42]

although i said before that confirmation bias is somewhat off-topic, i'll not drop it from the discussion, because it's important skeptecism term and also will add to my credibility applying for the MDC

It will only add to your credibility if your protocol carefully and methodically excludes it as an explanation of your claimed ability. Your descriptions of the experiences which led you to believe you have this ability are in fact textbook descriptions of confirmation bias at work. This is a fact you still don't seem to have grasped.

So far you have rejected every suggested protocol which does exclude confirmation bias and persisted with trying to persuade us that your own ideas for a protocol, which seem to be designed to ensure that confirmation bias can occur, are superior. Until you accept that no such protocol will be acceptable to JREF, no progress will be made.

 

[wardenclyffe]

As fun as the discussion of the singing frog is, this will be my last post here until reason1 actually posts his long-promised "detailed post" that answers the questions raised in this thread. I encourage others to do the same. This bait and switch keeps pulling us in. If I'm baited back into a discussion here before the "detailed post," please call me on it and ridicule me. There's simply nothing new to discuss until reason1 gives us something new---other than promises.

Ward

 

[fromdownunder]

But i didn't recall saying that i will explain how this telepathic power works.
It's quite obvious man....No offense OK ????!!!!

Well, I don't see anywhere on this thread where H3LL even asked you to explain how telepathic powers work - you seem to be the only one obsessed with this. In fact he said the opposite. None of us care HOW it works, just give evidence, above natural odds that it does, through a test based on an acceptable protocol.

So, without a specific pointer (and your own personal invention of word definitions - Humpty Dumpty would be proud) this is simply something else you have made up.


But, no offense taken. You did not even address the question. So, please in plain english, if you are capable, and I am beginning to doubt it, show me with a quote, where H3LL ever suggested that you need to explain how telepathy works? I think, because I can read, that he was stating the opposite - nobody cares HOW you do it - just do it! POST YOUR PROTOCOL

See, easy: POST YOUR PROTOCOL Then we can discuss that, rather than allow you to chase shadows, and avoid the simple fact that you appear to be deliberately avoiding your "major post", and have been doing so for several days. Come on, make a fool of me! Just do it!

Norm

 

[reason1]

I think maybe we should wait a day or so (and stop forcing reason1 to respond to our posts) so that he/she may complete the long post explaining everything that has been promised "real soon now" for at least two days.

You know what else would also help, responding on behalf of me to false claims , harassment , answered questions or anything you know can help me concentrate or can spare me the disappointment

 

[TSR]

I think maybe we should wait a day or so (and stop forcing reason1 to respond to our posts) so that he/she may complete the long post explaining everything that has been promised "real soon now" for at least two days.

You know what else would also help...

You simply making the choice to post the "long post explaining everything" and not responding otherwise until you have, especially since no one is actually forcing you to do anything?

Of course, it's just a suggestion...