You seem to have got the wrong end of the stick, the risk is that a woman may get pregnant. That is the risk in regards to hetrosexual sex between two fertile people.
Paper Abortions
- Thread starter Cavemonster
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In the UK both parents have to "pay" child support, whether that is a direct payment of money or in kind as the fulltime custodian parent. For a kid having a kid the child support they have to pay is 0. If they are in fulltime education, so for example at university at age 23 they have to pay zero. If they have a part time job at uni, they will probably have to pay £7 a week in child support, the minimum wage for a 21 year old is £7.70 per hour. If you earn £3000 a week you can be forced to pay £294 a week. It is hardly a life changing financial burden.
No one can force you to have anything to so with a child apart from the financial outlay.
If you are in prison you do not have to pay child support, as you are not earning anything.
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
Hmmm, seems it's not nearly as onerous as I imagined it would be.
The less you earn, the less you owe. If you earn nothing, you owe nothing. If you earn only a little, you only have to pay a little. And if you earn £3000 a week, you only have to pay shy of 10% of it.
I'm married with two kids and believe me, I pay a lot more than that, all told. I'm basically the main breadwinner for my family so I support my wife too.
So if you just want to contribute the bare minimum that is legally required, it's not actually that much it seems.
I think if you tell her from the beginning that you don't want a child and have no intention of being in the child's life, and she chooses to have the child anyway, the responsibility mainly falls on her to raise the child and provide for it.
casebro
Penultimate Amazing
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(just quoting for a start point, and the general "you", NOT at odds with 3.14)
And one of the horny woman's mental out comes is "So I spread my legs, we get it on, what is the worst that can happen? If I get pregnant, I get a husband to take care of me." Shotgun weddings were a real thing before abortion was legalized, why would anybody think they stopped? They are much more common today than abortions.
What, haven't you ever had a male friend say "I barely touched her and she got pregnant" ? So yes, entrapment happens. a lot.
But this angle got me to thinking- was it the Feminazis or the MRAs that were behind legalizing abortion? Or is it just something they have in common? "Promiscuous people everywhere UNITE ! " ? (The political spectrum seems to be a circle.Go far enough towards the fringe and meet the opposition coming back.)
It was people who didn't want people dying in back street abortions.
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
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But that is dependent on the idea that child support is based on what you are earning and that is not always the case. It can be based on what the judge decides you could be earning.
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
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"Right. Each state does it differently, but Texas will determine what a noncustodial parent's income is. If he says zero, well, there isn't zero child support, there will often be a presumption that he should be working full time, full year at at least minimum wage. So the judge will often set what's called a minimum wage order, and it's about $215 a month in Texas, which is about 20 percent of your net income of that. So here is a father who is now going to owe $215 a month plus about $50 a month in medical support. And he did not disclose that he had any income at the time that he established those awards."
https://www.npr.org/2015/11/19/456632896/how-u-s-parents-racked-up-113-billion-in-child-support-debt
The principle of child support is one thing, the current system is something else entirely.
Belz...
Fiend God
Once again, TM, I invite you to address the things I actually post, rather than figments of your imagination.
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
Do you really think my own posts haven't been repeatedly (and bizarrely) mischaracterized here? You are complaining of ropeburn in the house of the hanged.
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
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I could imagine a just system that allowed men to terminate their parental responsibility during early pregnancy, but the pre-conditions for such a thing aren't anywhere near being met yet. The primary impediments I see:
1) Abortion is not accessible enough for women and not broadly accepted enough for it to be considered a reasonably uninhibited option for women who find themselves pregnant. Many people see abortion as just another minor medical procedure, but enough see it as infanticide to heavily tilt such decisions.
2) Child welfare is largely seen as a private matter, and public assistance for needy children is quite poor. A child without two working parents is extremely likely to be significantly worse off than they should be. It's bad public policy to allow parents to decide to disadvantage children this way. Our current system meets this by requiring parental support. More robust social spending would mitigate this problem.
paper abortions seem justifiable in certain circumstances, but it would be poor policy and unjust to institute such a system with the conditions that exist now.
1) Abortion is not accessible enough for women and not broadly accepted enough for it to be considered a reasonably uninhibited option for women who find themselves pregnant. Many people see abortion as just another minor medical procedure, but enough see it as infanticide to heavily tilt such decisions.
2) Child welfare is largely seen as a private matter, and public assistance for needy children is quite poor. A child without two working parents is extremely likely to be significantly worse off than they should be. It's bad public policy to allow parents to decide to disadvantage children this way. Our current system meets this by requiring parental support. More robust social spending would mitigate this problem.
paper abortions seem justifiable in certain circumstances, but it would be poor policy and unjust to institute such a system with the conditions that exist now.
Not in the UK.
I think 3point14 is avoiding the point that you are making, which is that while sometimes people take actions to mitigate their risks, those efforts often can't be 100% effective and as such negative outcomes still sometimes occur in spite of the best efforts to avoid them. In those cases, we have to deal with the reality.
He really should agree with this much, as far as it goes.
The next issue is what it means to "deal with the reality". Particularly at the point at which a woman has become pregnant but not yet given birth. One way that a woman can deal with that reality is to have an abortion. Should an expecting father have the option to tell the expecting mother that he won't support the child in any way, at this point? That's the question of the thread, and I don't think either his argument or yours actually addresses it, though I do think your framing makes addressing it much more clear.
Personally I agree that at this point he can't force the woman to have an abortion. So if at least some such expecting mothers are going to give birth, what then? Should the father be exempt from his responsibilities at that point? Given that those responsibilites are in relation to the child and not the mother, I don't see how any agreement or statement made with the mother can exempt him from responsibilities to the child.
This is not punishment for sex. It's just, as you say, a fact that he has a child. One that, while he may have tried to avoid it, once it comes to pass carries certain responsibilities.
It's not clear to me how 3point14 addresses these issues.
Yeah. So there’s a lady; she’s pregnant and the father doesn’t actually want any baby duty. What to do?
It might be interesting if the father could transfer rights and responsibilities to a more willing party. Say the mother or father finds a person willing to support the kid fully himself, and the bio father signs over everything? Adoption lite?
It might be interesting if the father could transfer rights and responsibilities to a more willing party. Say the mother or father finds a person willing to support the kid fully himself, and the bio father signs over everything? Adoption lite?
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Guybrush Threepwood
Trainee Pirate
Is that not just adoption, period. I don't know the law but it would seem reasonable that if a single mother meets and establishes a relationship with someone other than the biological father, and that person adopts the child, then the biological father's financial obligations stop.
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In the UK if the biological father is OK with their biological child being adopted by someone else that can happen. If a stepchild is adopted that removes any legal obligation for the biological parent to provide child support.
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That is what happens in the UK; the biological father loses or gives up all legal rights in regards to the child.
Belz...
Fiend God
I'm sure they have been, surely even by myself. Do you think that's a good excuse to do it to others in turn?
I asked you to address what I post. Could you do that? You've mischaracterised my posts twice in a row.
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
I'm too bored with repeating myself to bother scrolling back to find whatever remark you made that you're so upset that I didn't treat as gently as you feel it deserves.
I'm over this thread. Idiocracy is correct. Unintentional breeding is something the foolish do, and foolishness is hereditary, so it will only increase over time. Good luck with trying to find legal remedies for biological realities!
Belz...
Fiend God
I think that's the whole point that people are trying to make to you: you can't solve human behaviour by asking people to act inhumanly.
And since you're too bored to look back, here's my earlier point: yes, sex is a bit unique. Not because it's magical, but because it's such a fundamental aspect of life. In fact, reproduction might be the most fundamental thing about all life forms. So it might require very specific solutions to its related issues, ones that don't require people to act like they're not alive.