Pandemic Panic Must Stop

[cullennz]

You do realize that Ginger is neither a Dude nor a Bro? right?

Lol

Apologies for that. Well the bro'

It would help if they read their own links

 

[smartcooky]

You do realize that Ginger is neither a Dude nor a Bro? right?

Indeed, and some people can't tell the difference between someone who is "angry" and someone who is "pissed off at having to repeatedly explain grade-school concepts to adults that wilfully refuse to understand"

 

[cullennz]

Think it was basically Atheist who actually hit on a real thing.

Health and safety for others due to you not being vaccinated, beats employment contract.

Still thing a few could be paid cash over it though.

 

[cullennz]

Indeed, and some people can't tell the difference between someone who is "angry" and someone who is "pissed off at having to repeatedly explain grade-school concepts to adults that wilfully refuse to understand"

I understand fine.

I read the links

 

[PhantomWolf]

Think it was basically Atheist who actually hit on a real thing.

Health and safety for others due to you not being vaccinated, beats employment contract.

Still thing a few could be paid cash over it though.

Who am I? Chopped liver?

Now that he has clarified himself, CullenNZ is correct that in New Zealand such a mandate is a kettle of fish due to the Contracts Laws and NZ Bill of Rights, however, I also think that an Employer could get around those using Health and Safety Laws should a worker be in a position where they could potentially infect others if not vaccinated. They certainly could make them have to wear PPE such as a gown, mask, and face shield everywhere on-site and generally make their lives a little bit miserable until they decide that it's better to go and get the shots.

Now, as I noted elsewhere, when it comes to vaccinations, these can be a health and safety issue, and employees can be moved out of high-risk positions, and even terminated if there are no places to put them into that are not high risk. They can be forced to undertake the use of PPE and other precautions that vaccinated colleagues don't. Employers can also not renew contracts and only hire those that are vaccinated. All these things certainly give incentives to get vaccinated, but an Employer should bever be able to force an employee to get a vaccine if they don't want it.

 

[Dr. Keith]

People are also dying of non-Covid causes because the hospitals are jammed full of Covid patients. Very bad time to get in an accident, or have a stroke or heart attack.

A family member (89) is likely going to die this week or next, but not of covid. She will die because the healthcare system is overstressed and she didn't get the care she needed as quickly as she normally would. She will be one of those nebulous "excess deaths" that are so easy to shrug off.

ETA: I did not realize how late I was to this thread. **** moves quick.

 

[cullennz]

Who am I? Chopped liver?

To be honest mate, kid of stopped looking at your post apart from the links which don't prove your point after you got all angry.

If I was into forums with people uber capitilising sentences and highlighting things I would create a "Letsallyellateachother.com" one

 

[PhantomWolf]

To be honest mate, kid of stopped looking at your post apart from the links which don't prove your point after you got all angry.

If I was into forums with people uber capitilising sentences and highlighting things I would create a "Letsallyellateachother.com" one

well for the record, a) I never get angry on these forums, half the time my posts are sarcastic or attempt at humour, getting angry is pointless. If you get one of those posts then either I'm getting frustrated with you or you did something silly and it was fun pointing it out. b) highlighting a quote isn't a form of anger, it's just a way of making sure that people know which part of the quote is important to my response if I am quoting a larger section to keep the particular passage in context, and c) I don't believe I have used all caps on this forum ever, unless my capslock actually was on and I posted without realising. And if that was the case, I'd usually edit it pretty quick. I tend to use italics to emphasize my posts.

 

[cullennz]

well for the record, a) I never get angry on these forums, half the time my posts are sarcastic or attempt at humour, getting angry is pointless. If you get one of those posts then either I'm getting frustrated with you or you did something silly and it was fun pointing it out. b) highlighting a quote isn't a form of anger, it's just a way of making sure that people know which part of the quote is important to my response if I am quoting a larger section to keep the particular passage in context, and c) I don't believe I have used all caps on this forum ever, unless my capslock actually was on and I posted without realising. And if that was the case, I'd usually edit it pretty quick. I tend to use italics to emphasize my posts.

Fair call, and apologise. You did point out H and S first

 

[cullennz]

It is actually probably the first time our draconian health and safety laws may be more usefull than just a pain in the **** lol

 

[PhantomWolf]

Fair call, and apologise. You did point out H and S first

Accepted and Exactly.

I'll see If I can remember my smilies in the future, cause some people seem to take me overly serious when I do the short one-sentence posts.

 

[PhantomWolf]

It is actually probably the first time our draconian health and safety laws may be more usefull than just a pain in the **** lol

To be honest, having previously worked for Shell NZ and Dow AgroSciences, I tend to be a bit of a H&S nut, mostly because I have seen the results of what can go wrong when people ignore those "draconian" H&S rules.

 

[cullennz]

To be honest, having previously worked for Shell NZ and Dow AgroSciences, I tend to be a bit of a H&S nut, mostly because I have seen the results of what can go wrong when people ignore those "draconian" H&S rules.

Yeah get them in those sort of dangerous environments, but far out they can be annoying in others.

Any way

That is another topic we could do a very long thread on feturing all countries issues.

Sorry for the side mention

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

While forcing a person to reveal their vaccination status is a violation of that person's right to medical confidentiality, ....

For the record, in the US anyway, that is not true. I can't speak for NZ of course but once again I say, show me the law and let's look at it. There are a lot of assumptions people make about these things that may not be true.

Re the US: First, HIPAA and all that related medical confidentiality only applies in the healthcare fields. Second, there are some laws about special confidentiality when it comes to drug addiction, mental illness, and certain STDs but even those aren't directly employer related.

Employers are not allowed to ask you about disabilities if you are applying for a job, but once they offer you a job they can ask things to ascertain if you can actually do the job they just hired you for. A lot of those specifics are in the ADA.

I don't think there are any laws against asking students or employees about their vaccine status. Heck, it's part of the college admission forms and in health care in the hospital at least, one of the first days of orientation is a visit to the employee health to assess and give you vaccines you lack or order blood tests.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Has any one ever mentioned you come across as an angry dude bro'

Tone it down mate, easier on the heart and that.

Come on, I come across as challenging your assertions and it makes you unhappy to have to deal with it.

You made all these ******* assertions, insisted I didn't know anything about human rights or whatever, and now you don't want to admit you were wrong.

It happens, easier on your heart and all that to just admit it and get over it.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Lol

Apologies for that. Well the bro'

It would help if they read their own links

Me? I didn't read my own links?

Well why don't you point out which of my sources I didn't read. Curious minds want to know.

 

[The Atheist]

Where are you getting this 1900 figure from?

Bad proof read - it should have been "1900 kids in hospital in USA".

First off, it depends where you are...

Auckland, and it's not just me saying it, it's well known and has been extensively reported. I have no idea where you live - maybe a cave?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/12...t-food-shortages-amid-supply-chain-disruption

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business...brunt-of-customer-annoyance-at-meat-shortages

You are mixing up whether something can be done with will it be done.

Hmmm, let me see...

Shall I take the word of internationally respected scientists or some bloke on the internet?

It is entirely possible to eradicate the SARS-CoV-2 virus...

Today the majority of cases left are in poor Asian and African nations where vaccination rates are low. Outbreaks in western countries are rare and when they do occur, they do so primarily in Anti-Vaxxer communities.

Now I know you live in a cave, because NZ had a measles epidemic only two years ago.

... if people would do the right thing...

And if wishes were pigs, bacon would be free.

You're confusing your little fantasy world with reality, and I'm only interested in reality, not some Utopian bollocks that's never going to happen.

 

[cullennz]

Me? I didn't read my own links?

Well why don't you point out which of my sources I didn't read. Curious minds want to know.

I am still trying to work out what point you were trying to make from them.

 

[cullennz]

Dude had petition denied because govt isn't planning making it mandatory?

I mean how the f is that relevant

 

[marting]

At this point SARS-Cov-2 is going to be endemic. The only state able to control the original breakout that had large land borders was China and they did so with measures not doable in most any other country. And in doing so they had over a year where things were pretty normal with minimal lockdowns and other measures that ebbed and flowed in most of the West. But that was with the original variant. Had the rest of the World acted in the same manner as China it's within the realm of the possible that Covid-19 could have been eliminated.

But that was then and now is now. The high growth in infections elsewhere spawned new variants that are more contagious and spread faster. And vaccine escape, at least in terms of infection, is a real issue. But at least vaccines are greatly effective at preventing death/serious disease.

So with vaccines making the disease far less serious there just isn't any way the majority of countries will and likely could ever do what's required to eliminate Covid-19.

It will become endemic and we will learn to live with it.

Here's a paper that describes possible transitions from epidemic to endemic.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/7/33/eabf9040

With respect to COVID-19, we identify a plausible transition in the age structure of risks once the disease reaches seasonal endemism across a range of immunity durations and relative severity of primary versus subsequent reinfections.