Pan Am Flight 103

Bell said:
The CIA (IIRC, I'm doing this all from memory from the news conference I saw back then) gave a presentation on how that came to be. After TWA800 exploded, the front part, still attached to the wings, flew upwards for some little time, with a fire trail behind it. It took some time for the sound of the explosion to reach the shore (they compared to thunder). So at the time the witness(es) heard the explosion and looked in that direction, they saw a firey trail going up, and shortly after that, they saw the burning wreckage of TWA800 falling down and breaking up.
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That's more technical than my post. Thanks. I was going to look it up, but frankly I had just gotten home from work and wasn't up for a lot of research.
 
Yes, sorry about that. I wasn't confident my query warranted a thread of its own, and since this thead was relatively recent I thought it OK to resurrect it.
 
I live very close to Lockerbie.

I drove past the scene the day after the event, although I saw very little of the actual crash I did see masses of emergencies services at the scene.

At the time I had a friend who was in the RAF mountain rescue service. He and his dog were employed at the scene to recover those that unfortunately perished in this event.

I have seen a couple of cters try to bring this flight up as some type of conspiracy before. I don't even bother addressing them, they are a waste of time and totally disrespectful of this event

if just one, any one of these idiots who promote conspiracies theories should come to Scotland and go to Lockerbie. I would gladly show them round. I would take them to the memorial garden that is set up and I would actually get hold of my friend who was involved. Maybe they would like to talk to somebody that really was involved.

It is the simple failure by the cters to realise that real people were involved in these events and the failure to understand that real people suffer the consequence of these dreadful event that maddens me so.

Am I expert on Lockerbie? No. I am just a guy that lives close by, saw bits of it and spoke to another guy who was involved in the clean up.

I do know one thing though; I would never get in my car drive a couple of miles and start pissing on graves. Nor would I talk about unfounded conspiracies there. But then again I don't live in a paranoid world of delusional fantasies, where I simply copy and paste there thoughts of those have never been there. I live in reality, very close to Lockerbie.
 
Big Les said:
Yes, sorry about that. I wasn't confident my query warranted a thread of its own, and since this thead was relatively recent I thought it OK to resurrect it.
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Sorry Big Les - I wasn't having a go at you. In fact, when I was writing my post I was thinking "Geez... I hope Big Les doesn't think I'm having a go at him".

Sorry if you got that impression.
 
Bell said:
The CIA (IIRC, I'm doing this all from memory from the news conference I saw back then) gave a presentation on how that came to be. After TWA800 exploded, the front part, still attached to the wings, flew upwards for some little time, with a fire trail behind it. It took some time for the sound of the explosion to reach the shore (they compared to thunder). So at the time the witness(es) heard the explosion and looked in that direction, they saw a firey trail going up, and shortly after that, they saw the burning wreckage of TWA800 falling down and breaking up.
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Almost right. THe cockpit broke off in the initial blast. The plane was more or less intact from the front of the wings back, and this portion (having no weight on the front anymore) rose and climbed upward before failing and falling.
 
qarnos said:
Sorry Big Les - I wasn't having a go at you. In fact, when I was writing my post I was thinking "Geez... I hope Big Les doesn't think I'm having a go at him".

Sorry if you got that impression.
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Hey, no, I didn't think you meant that. You're being oversensitive to my oversensitivity ;)

I'm really not too familiar with the CTs surrounding Lockerbie, but I think the sheriff/procurator vs coroner thing is a typical red herring. If anyone knows what powers of investigation such people have in Scotland as opposed to the rest of the UK, and how this could have made a difference to disclosed facts, I'd be interested to hear. The point is surely that if they DID have these powers, it didn't do those suspecting a CT any good, since the powers would have been open to them as bodies landed within Scottish borders.

Like I said, it just sounds like "coulda been, grumble grumble, gummint grumble" to me. Hot air.
 
Big Les said:
Hey, no, I didn't think you meant that. You're being oversensitive to my oversensitivity ;)

I'm really not too familiar with the CTs surrounding Lockerbie, but I think the sheriff/procurator vs coroner thing is a typical red herring. If anyone knows what powers of investigation such people have in Scotland as opposed to the rest of the UK, and how this could have made a difference to disclosed facts, I'd be interested to hear. The point is surely that if they DID have these powers, it didn't do those suspecting a CT any good, since the powers would have been open to them as bodies landed within Scottish borders.

Like I said, it just sounds like "coulda been, grumble grumble, gummint grumble" to me. Hot air.
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Well PF's (I dont know what he means by Sherriff) certainly do not have "unlimited powers of inquiry" as this chap put it. They do have pretty wide ranging powers but are always under the supervision and are answerable to the Crown Office and to the Lord Advocate, who is the Chief public prosecutor. If the Government where engaged in a cover up they could easily shut up a nosey PF.
 
Shaun from Scotland said:
Well PF's (I dont know what he means by Sherriff) certainly do not have "unlimited powers of inquiry" as this chap put it. They do have pretty wide ranging powers but are always under the supervision and are answerable to the Crown Office and to the Lord Advocate, who is the Chief public prosecutor. If the Government where engaged in a cover up they could easily shut up a nosey PF.
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Thanks Shaun, that explains why my googling around "sheriffs" was so rubbish. To be honest, the guy in question is quite partial to the old sauce; that might account for his conspiratorial ramblings!
 
Huntsman said:
Almost right. THe cockpit broke off in the initial blast. The plane was more or less intact from the front of the wings back, and this portion (having no weight on the front anymore) rose and climbed upward before failing and falling.
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Ah, thanks, I stand corrected. When I typed that, it didn't seem right to me. Now I know why.
 
So, out of interest, are there any conspiracy theories surrounding this event?
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Yes, there's this one:

It states that the bomb that blew up PA103 was loaded on Air Malta flight KM180 as unaccompanied baggage, transferred at Frankfurt onto Pan Am 103a and then at Heathrow onto Pan Am 103.

Records of the careful security checks made at Luqa show that there was no unaccompanied bag on KM180. All unaccompanied bags passing through Frankfurt were X-rayed by operators warned to look out for a bomb hidden in a radio cassette recorder.

A simple delay timer was used, so that any delay along the route would thwart the whole enterprise. PA103 would be over the open ocean for 6 hours, but the timer was set so early that the plane was brought down over land, where evidence could be recovered.

The amount of semtex used would not have been enough to damage the plane if the case containing the bomb had been loaded in the middle of a container rather than right at the edge.

This nonsense is in fact the Crown's case against the two Libyans indicted, and believed by the judges to be proved beyond reasonable doubt against Abdelbasset al-Megrahi. :confused:
 
Great find and handling, Pete2. There are nothing but conspiracy theories here, every one of which has been called ridiculous. One of these theories, the one you outlined, does have legal backing and is the official reality, but it's right in the middle of the stupid scale, at best.

StateofGrace
I have seen a couple of cters try to bring this flight up as some type of conspiracy before. I don't even bother addressing them, they are a waste of time and totally disrespectful of this event
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Any different now, a few years and a dozen threads later?

Also, you can safely ignore 911 Inside Job's looooong breach of rule whatever post. It's all John Parkes, who's a nutter. Saw some injuries consistent with either hitting a tree on landing or a vastly different explosion type that left no other clues anywhere. Decided on the latter.

There is plenty of BS with this case, but it doesn't all come from outside government channels. Not by a long shot.
 
Hey, I never saw this thread when I started looking for Lockerbie stuff in the forum in 2007! It's a find in that someone (now banned) has posted the entire canon of the Parkes ranting.

State of Grace is listed as "Guest", which usually means someone has asked to be de-registered, so I don't suppose he'll be back. I recognise that post though, I think he must have repeated it in another thread. I recall replying to ask in what way questioning a very dubious verdict could automatically be classed as "pissing on the graves" of the victims. I don't think I got a reply, as I remember.

Well, zombie thread lives.

Rolfe.
 
Hello? Earth to pete2??

You can't just go away again after that OP, you know!

Rolfe.
 
Flight 800 was blown up by Al Queda and Clinton covered up the fact to protect his so called fragile economic recovery, which wasn't.
 
danrush said:
Flight 800 was blown up by Al Queda and Clinton covered up the fact to protect his so called fragile economic recovery, which wasn't.
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No. TWA 800 was most likely destroyed by a center fuel tank explosion caused by faulty wiring.


Have you read the NTSB report? If so, please explain exactly what the NTSB missed. If not, please read it and then explain what the NTSB missed.
 
danrush said:
Flight 800 was blown up by Al Queda and Clinton covered up the fact to protect his so called fragile economic recovery, which wasn't.
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Dan, you started a thread JAQing off about TWA 800 only two weeks ago. Could something have been missed, you asked, apparently in all innocence.

You got your backside handed to you in pretty short order, but here you are again, not even asking questions but making bold pronouncements. Do you never learn?

Rolfe.
 
Oh, don't encourage him. Or if you must, take it to the thread he started where that is the actual subject. (Linked above.)

Rolfe.
 
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