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Pan Am 103: Unaccompanied bag from Malta: Evidence?

This sidetrack isn't likely to derail the thread for long as we'll probably have something up in a few days.

Since the wiki allows any page to be edited by any user at any time, it's probably best to limit the wiki to the facts and the references backing them up and leave the personal theories to the users own blogs. We'll be pushing into CT realms so it will be best to require logins for edit access and screen users to those the have similar goals of finding what really happened (or at least documenting what is known) over pushing a pet theory.

Some legalities need to be considered concerning documents. If the site is private we'll fly under the radar for copyright issues but should still try to stay legal. Documents should be referenced to the source anyhow and the act of seeking permission to archive documents on the site may open the channel to other similar documents.
 
This sidetrack isn't likely to derail the thread for long as we'll probably have something up in a few days.

Something's certainly better than nothing. What you're describing is basically a reference site to gather the available evidence. That would be useful, but more of a service for further action. I'd like to see something more open to speculation, tentative conclusions, statements of informed opinion, and especially external activism to raise awareness and pressure in the 3-D world. As well as pulling together existing info. Essentially, I'd like to help start up the independent inquiry that governments find "inappropriate." With no subpoena power, no legal authority, part-tiime unpaid staff just doing what they can, etc., but with the advantages of being open, transparent, flexible. If anyone else (a few people) are interested, I'd like to look at the options there fairly soon. Unless someone talks me down on it. It is a bit lofty and I'm not always the best at following through...

Since the wiki allows any page to be edited by any user at any time, it's probably best to limit the wiki to the facts and the references backing them up and leave the personal theories to the users own blogs.
That's true, that is what a wiki is, huh? So long as there isn't a Lockerbie case wiki yet, and we're not reinventng the wheel, it would be a good idea. Not requiring special priveleges to post opens it up to get filled quicker, so long as we can edit out the BS. I'd hate to see presentation of, say, the Lumpert affidavit, without some indication of how stupid that story is.

We'll be pushing into CT realms so it will be best to require logins for edit access and screen users to those the have similar goals of finding what really happened (or at least documenting what is known) over pushing a pet theory.

There's a place for both, IMO. But it's good to know what to do where and why.

Some legalities need to be considered concerning documents. If the site is private we'll fly under the radar for copyright issues but should still try to stay legal. Documents should be referenced to the source anyhow and the act of seeking permission to archive documents on the site may open the channel to other similar documents.

I hadn't even thought of that. I suppose it'll be a document-by-document decision. By private you mean, only viewable by registered people? That sound sound lame. What's the story with old media reports? I was thinking of taking a trip to the library for new stories 1988-whenever, to add stuff that's not online already.
 
That's true, that is what a wiki is, huh? So long as there isn't a Lockerbie case wiki yet, and we're not reinventng the wheel, it would be a good idea. Not requiring special priveleges to post opens it up to get filled quicker, so long as we can edit out the BS. I'd hate to see presentation of, say, the Lumpert affidavit, without some indication of how stupid that story is.

If you open a wiki to the public too soon it will get attacked by vandals and the few users will have to spend all their time cleaning up the mess. We'll start with an invitation only membership to get a framework in place and establish the rules for the site. Then we may open part of the site for public viewing and membership requests. Once we have a large enough membership base for self monitoring we can open it for automatic enrollment. But I don't envision the site getting that large unless we expand the scope.


I hadn't even thought of that. I suppose it'll be a document-by-document decision. By private you mean, only viewable by registered people? That sound sound lame. What's the story with old media reports? I was thinking of taking a trip to the library for new stories 1988-whenever, to add stuff that's not online already.

We would be asking for big trouble if we republished a massive collection of copyrighted articles. Keeping a private cache for research purposes should be fine. Copyrights can last for 75 years and anything published in a newspaper is going to have some copyright applied.
 
By the way, there are two outfits both called "UK servers". Mine is the one also going by the name "virtualnames". I'm not sure which one you looked at. My bunch are very low-cost because I don't do anything fancy, so they may not support so much.

I would have thought that some pages could be dedicated to the evidence for or against specific theories. And that some sections of pages might actually cover speculation, as long as it's clearly separated from the factual content.

Rolfe.
 
I haven't looked very closely at the "Masonic Verses" thing, but the author is posting on Roert Black's blog ("Baz"), but it might be worth a closer look as he seems to have studied the evidence quite closely.

http://e-zeecon.blogspot.com

He's a bit of a MIHOPer I think, though.

Rolfe.
 
"get taggs"

Scotland Against Crooked Lawyers. http://www.sacl.info/Lockerbie.htm
Professor Robert Black QC is highly critical of the judges for accepting Gauci's testimony. He is somewhat less outspoken when it comes to other evidence pointing towards Megrahi's guilt - such as Al Fhima's diary entries about "airline tags" (ruled inadmissible - but of interest to truth seekers everywhere)

Hmmm, that is interesting, why would he get all quiet about those taggs, clearly readable to English-reading eyes - suspicious investigators and indignancy-prone public. They were getting tags to put the bomb on 103. Right there, in English, tags. Black surely knows there's at least as good a case this was just instructions for an Libyan Arab Airlines employee to get more LAA tags printed with an apparently English-speaking Printer on Malta. Unless SACL looked closer than BBC Dispatches here (about 40% in) or 60 Minutes' Ed Bradley here (about 80% in). I admit I haven't examined the diary myself for all context clues, but this is an important clue to get right, as it stood as an original proof of the Megrahi/Fhimah partnership to circumvent Luqa's security. All the pieces of that fell apart, stripping off an accomplice and making Megrahi's conviction that much more bizarre. They HAD previously been wrongly glued together, and this is one sample of that glue at work. Giaka was the overflowing vat of adhesives, of course. This is just a dab of another make patted on at the right spot.
 
Hmmm, where did you find that? Their website designer should be taken out and shot for a start. I'd rather read Bollier's!

It's an odd summation of the evidence. They urge the reader to read the court judgement - but that's one of the strongest documents suggesting the conclusion to be flawed. Looks kinda official, doesn't it, despite the cock-eyed layout. But who are these people? The title is a dead giveaway - disgruntled litigants.

Made up of people from all walks of society, we have all, at one time or another, been victims of deep-rooted corruption in the legal profession.

Although all our cases are dissimilar, a vicious underlying theme pervades throughout, and that theme is the complete lack of redress from a self-regulated, hence corrupt, legal profession that has denied us any justice. Its legal mechanics have picked our pockets and then laughed in our faces for the privilege. It was these harrowing circumstances that united us in common purpose.

There is a similar pattern with many of them that illustrates a ready-made plan of action, or defence, by crooked lawyers to pre-empt exoneration for their crimes - with no little help from their fellow conspirators in the Law Society, the Faculty of Advocates, the Crown Office and the judiciary.

Having been forced into the corridors of depravity in our civil courts over prolonged periods, we soon learned the sad truth about the crooked operatives in the legal profession and their deceitful, fraudulent habits. [....]


I'd be interested in any new evidence or insights that they have, but I'm not that interested in their opinions. The whole thing sounds like a bunch of kooks, to be honest.

Rolfe.
 
Hmmm, where did you find that? Their website designer should be taken out and shot for a start. I'd rather read Bollier's!

Anyday. It's definitely a goofy little page, just popped up a few pages in on a random search. I should probably be glad the widget thing didn't work, the design is unique, especially the 90% empty space thing. Maybe it looked better at one point. Are those real judges at the top? One looks like a mode.l

It's an odd summation of the evidence. They urge the reader to read the court judgement - but that's one of the strongest documents suggesting the conclusion to be flawed. Looks kinda official, doesn't it, despite the cock-eyed layout. But who are these people? The title is a dead giveaway - disgruntled litigants.

"Deep-rooted corruption" somehow makes it feel more centralized and conspiratorial than it otherwise might.

The page does cover some details, and tries to make a pro-con breakdown for the different points of evidence. Apparently someone there did some research, but it's not very detailed or nuanced or useful or anything.
 
It reminded me a bit of the Conspiracy Files film. Well, there was definitely an unaccompanied bag came through from Malta, so that was definitely the bomb. Uh, right....

I can see the reasoning behind the suggestion that Libya was involved in the bombing. Libya was supplying terrorists of many nationalities with armaments at the time. I just can't understand why anyone who has studied the evidence clings to the idea that Megrahi did it.

The trial reminds me a bit of an old Dick Francis novel - Enquiry. A jockey and trainer are warned off (Newmarket Heath) at the start of the book, which means loss of livelihood for both. Basically, they were framed by a jealous rival. This was done by sending a bunch of slanted and fabricated evidence to the steward conducting the enquiry. The evidence was circumstantial and not terribly convincing, and the jockey was able to counter quite a lot of it at the hearing. However, the steward wasn't listening and preferred to believe the circumstantial evidence.

It turned out that the steward was being blackmailed. The villain, the jealous rival, knew something about the steward that would have ruined him socially, and threatened to expose him if he didn't find against the jockey and trainer. He then let him stew for a few days before sending him the anonymous package of evidence. The steward was so relieved to see evidence that apparently demonstrated the guilt of the accused, he simply wasn't listening when the evidence was challenged.

I see the Camp Zeist judges as being in a psychologically similar place. Not that anyone was going to expose their predilection for S&M sex clubs, but that they viewed the possibility of no convicitons coming out of Camp Zeist with absolute horror - possibly subconsciously. As a result, they latched on to whatever evidence they could that seemed to support Megrahi's guilt. The Camp Zeist judgement really does read remarkably similarly to pages 9 to 18 of Enquiry.

Rolfe.
 
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Yay I have the interwebs again.

Been skimming through some of the threads I've not read recently and will write more on Tuesday when I have more time, I like the Wiki idea though. I'd be happy to contribute.
 
Yay I have the interwebs again.

Been skimming through some of the threads I've not read recently and will write more on Tuesday when I have more time, I like the Wiki idea though. I'd be happy to contribute.

I was wondering what happened to you. I was struggling to not drop the cheese word. ("cheesed out" in case you're not familiar). Yay! The wiki is up, send Dan O. a PM.
 
I'm not sure what thread this fits in, but... Working on the names list at the new wiki site, found something on two of our heroes here, that happen for now to line up next to each other alphabetically. I didn't realize this before.

*Paul Foot - author of "Lockerbie: The Flight From Justice" published by Private Eye in May 2001. Died July 18 2004 (heart attack, in an airport)
*Allan Francovich - Videographer, producer of the film The Maltese Double Cross, released November 1994. Died April 24 1997 (heart attack, in an airport)

And, one may ask, why? I suppose studying air disasters and crossing powerful people who might be 'out to get you' might not be the best when you're at the airport, but still - it's apparently a set condition that takes about three years to kick in. ??? We could find a latin name for it - Rolfe, you might be the best at that.
 
I mentioned that several pages ago, or maybe in another thread.

The rumour that Francovich was assassinated has been around for some time - I believe he was generally very anti-establishment and blew several whistles on the CIA. However, bump off Paul Foot, and leave Ian Hislop up there on TV every week?

I think it's just one more coincidence, to be honest.

Rolfe.
 
I mentioned that several pages ago, or maybe in another thread.

The rumour that Francovich was assassinated has been around for some time - I believe he was generally very anti-establishment and blew several whistles on the CIA. However, bump off Paul Foot, and leave Ian Hislop up there on TV every week?

I think it's just one more coincidence, to be honest.

Rolfe.

Weird enough to mention anyway. I missed that Foot was dead at all, somehow. Only the good die young-ish. RIP "Pol Fot"
 
Here's something else, maybe nothing. Looking at the Erac printout, a four digit number I'm wondering about. In the upper left, under KIK (which was I think Bogomira's station). 1932. It's to the left of a date, so is it a time?
Printout_8849_Condensed.jpg

1653 departure, 22 minutes after the last two items arrived for loading at the second gate, B041. So it's not a time relating to the flight pulled up as 1042. Is it the time of data retrieval or printing? That's been said to be the next morning, but 1932 is evening. And the DATEI next to that, on the same data line, is 881221, not 1222. So if not access/print time and date, then what else might these represent?
 
I don't know, but you're convincing me that the entire Erac thing needs to be looked at more carefully. It's back to the timeline, which I was chewing over in a different thread.

It really does appear to be the Erac printout that is the crucial item of evidence which sent the focus of the case veering towards Libya. I realised this while reading Coleman, who of course has a different perspective because he's writing so early in the case, before everybody started obsessing about the timer fragment.
  • Up to March 1989, everybody is very excited about the PFLP-GC connection, with arrests being expected and so on.
  • Mid-March 1989, the alleged conversation between Thatcher and Bush, agreeing to play down that connection. However, at first there as no alternative theory put forward in its place.
  • August 1989, the Frankfurt police finally hand over the Erac printout to the investigating authorities, complete with annotations and supporting documentation to suggest an unidentified bag has come through the system on to PA103A from KM180.
  • September 1989, Scottish police visit Malta for the second time, to try to trace the purchaser of the "Made in Malta" items that were identified as probably having been in the bomb suitcase. (Their first visit, in March, was apparently fruitless, as similar items had been supplied to retailers all over Europe, however after the KM180 connection was proposed they went back to concentrate on retailers on Malta itself.)
  • Almost immediately, with the help of the Maltese police, they were put in touch with Gauci, who told them about the mystery shopper, and volunteered that he believed the man to have been Libyan.
  • Late September 1989 (I think), the first press reports in a French newspaper allege Libyan involvement.
  • December 1989, the Sunday Times and other English papers have shifted their line from Syria to Libya.
  • January 1990 (I think), the conference where Henderson doesn't reveal the mystery green fragment for general consideration, but mentions it to Marquise, who is quite miffed at the determination of the Scottish cops to "go it alone" on the identification.
  • April 1990, the fragment's trip to Germany and the Siemens factory.
  • June 1990, Thurman finally gets a gander at it and identifies it in no time flat.
So by this reckoning, the Erac printout is far more important that I had realised at first. It led to KM180, which led to Malta, which led to Gauci, who said "filthy Libyan pigs" or something like that. Nevertheless, the investigators still had nothing concrete to link it to Libya at this stage. That was where Giaka came in, and of course the MST-13 fragment.

Leaving aside the evidence of the red-circle photo (suggesting that the timer fragment was in the system in May 1989), this all looks quite neat.

All the initial evidence points to the PFLP-GC. Who are backed by Syria. Who were being paid by Iran to take revenge for the shooting down of the Airbus. The police are hot on the trail. But hey, we don't want to lock horns with Iran for some fairly major geo-political reasons. What's done's done, and it might be better just to let them get away with it.

And another thing, the plane that went down was being used by the DEA for a "controlled" drugs delivery as part of a sting operation to catch drug dealers in Detroit. We're kinda worried that the bomb was smuggled on board using that operation to circumvent security at Frankfurt, and it would be embarrassing to have to admit it was an "official blind eye" that allowed the plane to be sabotaged. We've already taken steps to bury all the baggage records from Frankfurt because of that' and we'd take it very kindly if you'd refrain from asking questions about it.

Oh, and it's more complicated that that. The controlled drugs deliveries were actually linked to negotiations for the release of the Beirut hostages. So we seriously don't want these questions asked.

This is March, OK?

Is it at all possible that the Frankfurt and Maltese police were in some way co-opted to provide that chain of evidence that would lead to Gauci and "filthy Libyan pigs"? I would just mention that Frankfurt is in the part of Germany that was under US control post WW2.

They've got five months to do it. According to Coleman (who isn't necessarily correct, but it's a start), all that was handed over by the Germans was the Erac printout, the handwritten worksheet from station 206, and a typewritten document. All neatly ready-annotated with the inference trail leading to KM180. Caustic Logic, do you think it's possible for the entire damn lot to have been fabricated, or at least the printout?

My reasoning is that the Malta connection exists already, in the labels on the clothing. If the imperative is to turn attention away from Frankfurt (it's already been turned away from Heathrow, from about week 1), then Malta might be a good place to focus on. (Especially if you don't know about Air Malta's tight security, and make the common assumption that a small carrier at a small provincial airport will probably have quite lax security provisions.)

Using that connection, we can then make a case for the clothes to have been manufactured on Malta (which we already know), bought on Malta, packed on Malta, and loaded on the plane in Malta. So nobody has to hang for a security breach at Frankfurt.

I know this ignores quite a bit - like, did Gauci really sell the clothes, and if not what's all this about regarding Abu Talb being there on 23rd November, and Gauci's photofit looking a bit like Abu Talb (Bollier says Giaka, but I'm taking that with the obligatory pinch of salt).

Well, I'm on a bit of a roll here. Abu Talb had a load of clothes of Maltese manufacture in his flat in Sweden. He said he was investigating a business plan to sell these clothes in Sweden. But you don't buy such clothes samples from a retailer like Gauci. Do we know where he got those clothes? Did anybody try to find out?

Suppose Jibril and his henchmen simply took some of Abu Talb's Maltese clothes samples for bomb packing. That's the real Maltese connection. And the whole, "well it was raining a bit, and the Christmas lights weren't up yet and my brother was watching the football" stuff was so much flim-flam.

I know I said I couldn't believe Gauci was capable of making this stuff up. And why would he? I also said I didn't see how the Erac printout could have been fabricated, with Mrs. Erac being wheeled on to give it authentic provenance.

I'm not exactly changing my mind, but I think there are legitimate questions to ask.

Rolfe.
 
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PS. If you want to argue against that, start with the unbrella (that's not a typo by the way).

The story goes that the cops didn't mention umbrella to Gauci at all. He himself volunteered the bit about the rain, and the customer buying an umbrella for that reason. The cops asked what sort of an umbrella, and he showed them one just the same. They went back to Scotland and looked at a pile of random umbrellas that had been recovered from the ground, and lo and behold, one was an exact match.

Except, that last bit can't be right. The umbrella was nowhere near intact, according to the court judgement.

Three fragments of a black nylon umbrella. The major fragments comprised part of the canopy, ribbing and handle stem, shredded and partly collapsed indicating close involvement with an explosion. Strongly adherent to the canopy material were blue and white fibres, similar in appearance to the Babygro fibres. A second fragment was a piece of silver coated black plastic with fluted surface corrugations similar to part of the locking collar of the umbrella, and this was found in a fragment of the tartan checked trousers (item 2 above).


Hmmmm.

Then again, what about the tweed jacket? Gauci says the customer bought that, and he was glad to get rid of it because he couldn't sell it due to Malta's mild climate. He would have given a discount, but the man didn't ask for one. Was that manufactured on Malta? That would explain its presence in Abu Talb's collection of samples. It's a funny thing for a Maltese shop to stock at all, though.

Hmmmm, again.

Rolfe.
 
  • Late September 1989 (I think), the first press reports in a French newspaper allege Libyan involvement.
  • December 1989, the Sunday Times and other English papers have shifted their line from Syria to Libya.

Just to note, this bit was wrong. It was September 1990 that L'Express published the stuff about the MST-13 being of Libyan origin, and December 1990 when the Independent reported conclusive proof of Libya's guilt. So, after the identification of the timer fragment and apparently directly prompted by it.

I'm not sure that damages my little theory much, but let's get it right.

Rolfe.
 
Suppose it was all supposed to be about Libya much sooner?

Evidence introduced to point to Malta, to reinforce the provenance of the clothes. Then that points to Gauci, who implicates Libya. In September 1989.

And nobody takes a blind bit of notice.

The timer fragment is part of this and I still have an open mind about when it was introduced, who knows. But nobody will give it to Thurman, who can identify it.

Feraday allegedly sends the picture to Williamson in September 1989, just when it's all go with Gauci. Pace Private Eye, but that sounds like about the right time for a fabricated fragment to be introduced. Especially if it was produced from the test detonations that happened in the USA in the summer of 1989.

Somebody is supposed to show it to the Yanks quite soon after that, but it takes them nine months. Oh dear.

I don't have a clue how the problem of the negative of the red-circle photo is circumvented in that scenario, but since we don't know it wasn't, I'm not giving up on it yet.

Rolfe.
 
Below is an e-mail I'm about to send to Robert Black. Thought I'd share it here and proofread it before sending.

Dear Professor Black
(in lieu of better knowledge of formal title)

I have been following your blog and appreciating your contributions to various articles and videos on the subject of the Lockerbie disaster and trials. As someone on the inside track, I felt it worth asking your help. I'm also involved in some detailed discussion-cum-investigations at the JREF forum (forums.randi.org), as well as starting a "wiki" research site to make sense of all the evidence and claims. On the latter, it's members-only at the moment, but easy to register and then open to edit and add. I'm sure you personally have bigger fish to fry, but in case you have a chance to steer anyone else towards involvement, it will become a resource to be reckoned with that much quicker.
(not sure if I should post the url here ??)

Along the way we're finding ourselves limited by lack of some primary source material, particularly in my mind transcripts or other direct reflections of actual Camp Zeist trial proceedings. Each of us has a copy of the final verdict and some of the appeal-related documents, but sorely lack in transcripts, or video or audio coverage, of the questioning itself. For example, the following passage is posted on a Mebo page, indicating Mr. Bollier at least has some of these records:
Q-And keeping that in front of you, would you look at Label 412. What's the police identification reference on that label, Mr. Williamson? A- DP/347(a) Q- So that's the same as the reference on 434, but with the addition of the letter "(a)"? A- Yes. Q-Have you signed the label that's attached to 412? A- No, I have not, sir. Q- What does the label say about its source? A- It says "Found DP/347 on 24/5/91". Along from that, "28/2/92." Q- So it says "Found DP/347"? A-Yes, sir. Q- I see.
I'm inclined to trust this as good evidence, but there's more out there somewhere and I for one would like a more direct source, even for the tidbits. Do you have any tips on where a researcher could find such material? I'm unsure if there might be any 'national security' or 'court secrets' type limitations on what's releasable, but as we wait for a new investigation, it might help to digest more fully what came out of the last one. Also, image productions (label 412, etc.) would be most useful if they are available anywhere that we've been unable to find.

Keep up the wonderful work - it's appreciated by many. I'm looking forward to your book.
 

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