Palin on SNL

[Smackety]

Tolerance does not mean being tolerant of intolerance.

 

[NorfolkAtheist]

So, I don't want to put words in your mouth. You are saying it is appropriate to dislike people simply for their views?

I find personal reactions to other people can be a very fickle thing, and I don't think disliking someone for virtually any reason is necessarily inappropriate. However, how one handles their dislike for another can often lead to inappropriate behavior (e.g. spreading rumors). On the other hand, you can dislike someone and still be nothing but civil to them.

Also, that tolerance for people regardless of their ideology isn't a liberal virtue, right?

I was clumsy in my earlier posts. Sorry for that. Tolerance is a liberal virtue (although I don't claim that liberals have a monopoly on it). Tolerance being the practice of prohibiting discrimination of actions or groups, usually ones that are frowned upon by large portions of people. Just because one wants to prohibit discrimination of a group (by government, business, etc.) doesn't mean they have to like them on a personal level. I can defend the right of the KKK to march and still refuse to sit down for drinks with the Grand Wizard.

Do you think this stuff about working together to solve problems is nonsense?

No.

Do you have contempt for people simply because that person has views that you disagree with?

Under most circumstances, contempt would be far too strong a word. But, I do a feel a bit of contempt for those who say that gays deserve to die of AIDS. Yet, I'm still tolerant of them. Just because I don't like them personally doesn't mean I don't support their rights to hold and espouse their views.

Please believe me that I only want to understand your POV. I wasn't expecting your response and I'm wondering if my close associates and friends who are liberal are off or if I just missed the point. It's not beyond me.

I appreciate your desire to understand my POV. It may take a few more exchanges for me to clear things up, but I'm afraid I'm off to bed for the night.

 

[Policenaut]

SNL better get some better writers because their Obama jokes (the few they have made) are lame. The country is moving more PC every day and I have no reason to believe it will be less PC under Obama. Where is our modern day Pryor? Why is it that SNL was edgier 30 years ago than it is today?

 

[RandFan]

I find the comparison between Fox News and NPR quite stark in terms of tolerance of different opinions.

I'm not sure why you would compare Fox to NPR. I think a comparison of MSNBC would be more apt. I'm personally a fan of Rachel Maddow. I used to like Olberman but he has become increasingly shrill as of late.

I heard a conservative pundit on the radio today saying that Obama would turn the country into a "campus," in that it would become an excessively "PC" environment, with people "afraid to say what they think for fear of offending someone." I couldn't disagree more with this assessment of the the tenor of discourse on most campuses-- it was in college that I learned about fighting bad speech with more good speech, not with censorship.

College? You mean the places with speech codes? The codes that are often struck down in court as they often impinge on free speech?

I don't see what Obama has to do with that. It's nonsense.

 

[RandFan]

I find personal reactions to other people can be a very fickle thing, and I don't think disliking someone for virtually any reason is necessarily inappropriate. However, how one handles their dislike for another can often lead to inappropriate behavior (e.g. spreading rumors). On the other hand, you can dislike someone and still be nothing but civil to them.

I was clumsy in my earlier posts. Sorry for that. Tolerance is a liberal virtue (although I don't claim that liberals have a monopoly on it). Tolerance being the practice of prohibiting discrimination of actions or groups, usually ones that are frowned upon by large portions of people. Just because one wants to prohibit discrimination of a group (by government, business, etc.) doesn't mean they have to like them on a personal level. I can defend the right of the KKK to march and still refuse to sit down for drinks with the Grand Wizard.

Under most circumstances, contempt would be far too strong a word. But, I do a feel a bit of contempt for those who say that gays deserve to die of AIDS. Yet, I'm still tolerant of them. Just because I don't like them personally doesn't mean I don't support their rights to hold and espouse their views.

I appreciate your desire to understand my POV. It may take a few more exchanges for me to clear things up, but I'm afraid I'm off to bed for the night.

Thank you very much. I think I have a pretty good idea.

I agree that tolerance is a liberal virtue and one I like. I like a lot of things about liberals by the way. It sucks that the right has turned it into a word that many avoid in preference of "progresive". Liberals have a long and proud history and it shouldn't be considered a dirty word.

In the end liberals are people. They are quite capable of pettiness and intolerance. It's when they are that my claws come out. But I should be fair.

I'll back off of my claim that Fey is hypocritical until I get more information. I like her work on 30 Rock and SNL (though I've been critical of her work in the past).

 

[Puppycow]

Kudos to Palin.

I liked Fey but I don't have a lot of respect for her anymore. For some it's not enough to simply disagree with someone. Fey clearly has nothing but contempt for Palin simply because she disagrees with her politics. It's this kind of hypocracy that turns me off of the left. They claim to be tolerant and accepting of different points of views but it's largely BS.

I don't care for Palin's religion or her views on abortion and I certainly don't think she's qualified to be VP but I don't see hating someone or having a strong negative emotional feelings toward someone simply for ideological views.

Should we also do away with such things as political cartoons that poke fun at politicians?

 

[davefoc]

I thought she did well.

Almost certainly she won some votes with this appearance. She was smooth, happy, in control, entertaining and sexy.

As a person that is horrified by the notion that Sarah Palin might be president some day, I was disappointed that she did so well. It might be nice to think that the presidential race won't be decided by how well Palin did tonight but it might be.

McCain didn't do as well on Letterman, but there he had to deal with actual unscripted questions which included explaining away the lies that he had told Letterman previously.

 

[RandFan]

Should we also do away with such things as political cartoons that poke fun at politicians?

What? You have me confused with some other body. I recorded all of Fey's Palin impressions and I think it's great stuff. It's dead on accurate in so many ways. It's the best stuff I've seen on SNL in a long time.

I'm a huge proponent of political parody and mockery in all of it glorious forms. I say bring it on. There should be no sacred cows. I don't care much for a lot of poking fun of handicapped but I don't bust anyone's balls for it.

Anything else though is fine with me and if it's political then I love that stuff. Not only do I like it but more importantly I recognize that political speech is really at the heart of the first Amendment. It's difficult to list many things more important than free speech.

I hope I've made that clear.

 

[anduin]

I've always found the left wanting tolerance for different opinions. Am I wrong? The word "divisive" is bandied about by folks on the left a lot of late. The political right is often criticized for polemical rhetoric.

Tolerance is indeed something to be aspired to, but do not mistake tolerance with mindless acceptance of other's views. I am a lurker, and I am sure that I disagree with your views, but I am tolerant of them. However, this tolerance does not give you a free pass from criticism. Fey's depiction of Palin is not intolerant, it is comic criticism. Therefore, it is not hypocritical.

In my experience, some right-wing sites are intolerant because they tend to systematically ban dissenting opinion. FreeRepubic, creationist sites, and Christian Forums usually ban posters who do not comply with the accepted opinion.

Having said that, I am troubled by intolerance whenever I see it, be it from the left or the right. I cherish the right of people to disagree, but never confuse tolerance with getting a free pass from criticism.

 

[HarryKeogh]

As an Obama supporter I was worried that Palin would kill tonight and be in a sketch that would be a YouTube sensation that would endear her to a certain base and win her a bunch of votes. I don't think that happened. She was a minor side character in the bits she was in and didn't have any killer lines.

Oh, and thank sweet baby Jesus for DVR for being able to fast-forward through most of that crappy show.

 

[maxfrost]

I thought Palin was a good sport to be on SNL, although it appeared to me that at times she was looking as though she'd rather be anywhere else.

Oh, and the worse thing I've heard Fey say about Palin was that she thought that they were of about equal intelligence and that neither one of them should be vice president.

 

[AWPrime]

True, but she is a governor of Alaska and she is more than you and I will ever hope to be.

You actually want to be governor of Alaska?

 

[gdnp]

True, but she is a governor of Alaska and she is more than you and I will ever hope to be.

You know it's true.

You judge yourself on an interesting scale and I choose not to play.

For example, I have 3 intelligent and well-adjusted kids, all of whom will likely attend college and none of whom (thus far) have become pregnant. That is far more important to me than national fame.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

She takes clearly recognizable features of Palin and exaggerates them for humorous effect. And she's really good at it.

Which is exactly what everycomedian who does impressions does when doing those impressions.

 

[RandFan]

However, this tolerance does not give you a free pass from criticism. Fey's depiction of Palin is not intolerant, it is comic criticism. Therefore, it is not hypocritical.

Not at all what I was talking about.

Having said that, I am troubled by intolerance whenever I see it, be it from the left or the right. I cherish the right of people to disagree...

Cool.

 

[RandFan]

You judge yourself on an interesting scale and I choose not to play.

You are taking this out of context. Go back and re-read or see post #15.

 

[kallsop]

I think Tina Fey is great. If she pushes the envelope too far and let's her personal hatred of Palin intrude into her skits, they won't be funny and that defeats the purpose.

SNL is very much lame, and it's not too hard to see why. Just a few weeks ago they lampooned Bush, Pelosi, Frank and some folks "disadvantaged" by the mortgage mess and look at the flack they got from the "tolerant" liberal media. How dare they infer that the democrats are to blame for anything! SNL doesn't have the balls to do that every week. Where are the SNL skits trashing Biden for the dumb things he routinely says?

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Alex Baldwin appears to be channeling Marlon Brando and Elvis.

Is he getting bloated or what?

 

[FaisonMars]

I'm not sure why you would compare Fox to NPR. I think a comparison of MSNBC would be more apt. I'm personally a fan of Rachel Maddow. I used to like Olberman but he has become increasingly shrill as of late.

NPR is often held up as a "liberal" media outlet. I don't actually find this to be the case, except in the manner in which "reality has a well-known liberal bias."

College? You mean the places with speech codes? The codes that are often struck down in court as they often impinge on free speech?

I may just be lucky in where I've had the opportunities to work, but in my experience, uni campuses are VASTLY more tolerant of different viewpoints and in fostering an atmosphere of debating the merits of an idea than your typical corporate "cubical land" (or political arena, for that matter).

 

[RandFan]

..."reality has a well-known liberal bias."

Please to explain?

I may just be lucky in where I've had the opportunities to work, but in my experience, uni campuses are VASTLY more tolerant of different viewpoints and in fostering an atmosphere of debating the merits of an idea than your typical corporate "cubical land" (or political arena, for that matter).

I don't know what a political arena is but I think most corporations aren't about fostering free thought and expression.

I've my own anecdotal experience but the speech codes are troubling. How much they interfere with expression I don't know. I do know they typically lose in court when challenged.