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Pakistan Earthquake.

Marion Zimmer Bradley put it best for me in Firebrand when she said, to paraphrase, "if God can't, then he isn't a God. And if God can, but won't, what kind of god is he?"

"For the record", as they say, she was paraphrasing Hume, and the argument itself goes back further. Interestingly, the "problem of evil" was far less of an issue to ancient polytheistic societies, since no one god, usually, was omnipotent--at the very least he could be thrwarted by other gods.
 
Skeptic said:
"For the record", as they say, she was paraphrasing Hume, and the argument itself goes back further. Interestingly, the "problem of evil" was far less of an issue to ancient polytheistic societies, since no one god, usually, was omnipotent--at the very least he could be thrwarted by other gods.
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Oh, thank you! I didn't know where that had come from, and appreciate knowing the source.
 
slingblade said:
...And let's give it up for the Juan de Fuca plate and the Cascades, and their patient sidekick, the Yellowstone Super Volcano.
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A friend of mine is a geology teacher. She claims with casual matter-of-factness the day will come when Yellowstone blows. And lay waste to the entire western US.
 
BPSCG said:
Maybe we should send them a whole lot of rebar, instead, with instructions how to use it.
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Especially the instructions part. After all, the double-deck expressway that collaped in San Fransisco had plenty of rebar in it.
 
Iamme said:
Especially the instructions part. After all, the double-deck expressway that collaped in San Fransisco had plenty of rebar in it.
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And killed what - 30 people? Not 40,000. Nothing is fail safe. But if they would have used rebar and modern construction techniques, perhaps the death toll would have only been 1000.

Remember, Pakistan and Afghanistan are a Libertobian dream world!
 
I can't believe the Pak government failed to prepare and respond adequately to this natural disaster.

Probably racism is to blame, or that their troops were off fighting somewhere....
 
American said:
I can't believe the Pak government failed to prepare and respond adequately to this natural disaster.

Probably racism is to blame, or that their troops were off fighting somewhere....
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LOL

The good news is that Bin Laden could be lying somewhere under a ton of rubble. There's no evidence to support that idea, but we can always hope.
 
slingblade said:
Oh, thank you! I didn't know where that had come from, and appreciate knowing the source.
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In that case you'll appreciate knowing the actual source even more.

It's called the Riddle of Epicurus:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

Hume, on the other hand, allows that it is possible to save the appearances for God (see Hume's Dialogues for more information).
 
Dr Adequate, thanks for the riddle of Epicurus. It summarizes what has been the way I have looked at religion since I was very young. I wish I had been smart enough to phrase it so succintly. When I was young I thought the idea was so obvious that everyone really understood it but didn't discuss it out of politeness. It wasn't until I was much older that I came to understand how common true believers were.

On the issue of rebar:

The first pictures of the disaster were of a girl's school that had collapsed killing a large number of people (more than 200 as I recall). The thing that interested me is that it was a reinforced concrete structure with a lot of the rebar visible. I noticed that the concrete had separated completely from the concrete in many places and wondered if this was an indication of poor concrete or just poor design. I happened to see some pictures of collapsed reinforced concrete structures in the US a few days later. The concrete had completely separated from the rebar in some places in these structures also. So at least to a casual observer it wasn't obvious why the structure had collapsed.

In California, so called tilt up buildings (buildings with reinforced concrete walls that are tilted up into place) can be hazardous in earthquakes unless care is taken with their construction to securely connect the walls to each other. Maybe the failure of that building was related to something like that.

As a bit of aside I attended a lecture on how well structures fared in the big Taiwan earthquake of several years ago. One interesting thing that came out of it was that some reinforced concrete structures had done much better than others, only as the result of a happenstance kind of structural difference.

Buildings where the space in the walls had been filled with rubble fared much better than buildings with hollow walls. Even though the rubble had not been inserted into the wall to add strength the additional strength that resulted was enough to significantly improve the chances those buildings wouldn't fail. Apparently the extra shear strength had a beneficial effect.
 
BPSCG said:
Maybe we should send them a whole lot of rebar, instead, with instructions how to use it.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the Pak's could sell a few nukes and missiles to Iran and recoup the billions (tens, hundreds?) they spent on that, for building a few a blanket and tent factories instead?

I'm as sympathetic as anyone for individual suffering, but when it comes to sending money to government black holes, forget it. The last time I did that in the US I later found out that I helped make multimillionaires out of a small group of families, many of whom were already millionaires or close to it. In the future I'll help neighbors I can see and know. If we all just do that (and sell spare nukes), there should be plenty to go around.


Yes I'm burned out, as I sit and wait for Wilma.
 
Dr Adequate said:
In that case you'll appreciate knowing the actual source even more.

It's called the Riddle of Epicurus:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

Hume, on the other hand, allows that it is possible to save the appearances for God (see Hume's Dialogues for more information).
Click to expand...


For what it's worth, a more current opinion follows:

The Intelligent Designer
Irving Rothchild
Case Western Reserve University



Is it female or male? Does it have any sex? Does it get a big charge out of making malaria,
Does it come with a name, like Jane, Irving, or Rex? Cholera, AIDS, or a cook who's a carrier
What we need is a super-intelligent definer Of typhoid or worms who love to live in your spine or
To define this uncanny Intelligent Designer Your belly? this heartless Intelligent Designer!

Has it got any features? Does it have any limbs? Did the brain carcinoma (what's more unbenigner?)
Is it made of dark matter or two-dimensional films? Come out of the shop of the Intelligent Designer?
Among all the world's gods, is it major or minor? Does the tse-tse fly sing a clear thankful hosanna
This amorphous, intangible Intelligent Designer? To the ID everytime it makes someone a goner?

Does it live on a planet, a star, or a comet? Does it have any purpose except to confuse
Inside a black hole or far, far away from it? Bible myths of creation with what scientists use
Can it ride on a light beam or something diviner? To learn how designs in nature are made?
This incongruous, elusive Intelligent Designer This Intelligent Designer - a pointless charade!

Would a galactic ensemble fit most of it in.
Or is it as small as the head of a pin,
or perhaps in between, like a grand ocean liner?
This mysterious, pretentious Intelligent Designer!
 
Sorry, that should have been formatted better before sending

The Intelligent Designer
Irving Rothchild
Case Western Reserve University



Is it female or male? Does it have any sex?
Does it come with a name, like Jane, Irving, or Rex?
What we need is a super-intelligent definer
To define this uncanny Intelligent Designer

Has it got any features? Does it have any limbs?
Is it made of dark matter or two-dimensional films?
Among all the world's gods, is it major or minor?
This amorphous, intangible Intelligent Designer?

Does it live on a planet, a star, or a comet?
Inside a black hole or far, far away from it?
Can it ride on a light beam or something diviner?
This incongruous, elusive Intelligent Designer

Would a galactic ensemble fit most of it in.
Or is it as small as the head of a pin,
or perhaps in between, like a grand ocean liner?
This mysterious, pretentious Intelligent Designer!

Does it get a big charge out of making malaria,
Cholera, AIDS, or a cook who's a carrier
Of typhoid or worms who love to live in your spine or
Your belly? this heartless Intelligent Designer!

Did the brain carcinoma (what's more unbenigner?)
Come out of the shop of the Intelligent Designer?
Does the tse-tse fly sing a clear thankful hosanna
To the ID everytime it makes someone a goner?

Does it have any purpose except to confuse
Bible myths of creation with what scientists use
To learn how designs in nature are made?
This Intelligent Designer - a pointless charade!


(Skeptical Inquirer, Dec 2005)
 
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