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Oxford High School, Michigan, school shooting.

I fully expect his attorneys to go with a not guilty by reason of insanity defense.

Since his parents are apparently Trump supporters, he already has a leg up. :p
 
Meadmaker said:
Shooting clubs in schools doesn't seem totally weird to me, but carrying them to school on the subway seems a bit odd.


I was actually referring to the forum "old days". There were lots of threads started with titles along the lines of "Responsible gun owner shoots wife.". Or "Responsible gun owner shoots self in leg.". It was poking fun at gun rights advocates always talking about the rights of responsible gun owners
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Yeah, my response wasn't totally related...it was more "speaking of old days..."

And yeah...it is amazing what you find when looking back. Even kids as young as 9 started with BB guns, then rifle or marksmanship team in Middle School.
Boy Scouts, 4-H, NRA had teams. The largest today connected to schools is probably the ROTC program. They still exist...just not at a public school.

Here's a blog in a hunter's site (2018):
What Happened to Middle School Rifle Club?

The rifle club was supported by an NRA Marksmanship Program, which at the time was treated by the school district like any other student extracurricular activity. The program had deep roots in schools across the country and began in the early 20th century—long before 1973 when I arrived at Carl Sandburg Junior High in Golden Valley, Minn.

There were only a few of us in the program at Sandburg but we were a dedicated bunch. Every week we assembled at the front entrance of our school with cased rifles slung over our shoulders. Yes, you read that right: We stood inside the school with .22 rifles in our hands. (Cue the gasps from the modern school administrators.) There we were, holding functional rifles, preparing ourselves to take a district-owned school bus to the local high school, which had a rifle range in the basement.

This wasn’t just a long hallway back in the dark recesses of the basement with sandbags at one end. It was a dedicated shooting range much like the one you probably use in your town today. It had target hangers and mechanical trolleys to move targets up and down range. It had an air lock between the common area and the range itself to minimize noise, and I believe it even had station partitions. It was a great place to learn the art of marksmanship.
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I come to some tentative thought that many of these kids now who feel powerless to change their situations or avenge themselves, resort to the "badass" superpower they attain in a gun. Same psychology as gang culture really.
 
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I never had guns of any sort in any way associated with schools, but BB guns were a thing in Cub Scouts, and rifles were a thing in Boy Scouts. I don't remember exactly when I got my BB gun, but I would guess I was either 8 or 9 years old.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
Simple rule: if you're weapon is taken because it wasn't secured, and used to commit a crime, you loose your right to have one.

That would boost gun safe sales.
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I have long held that that is not enough. If one is careless enough to lose track of their firearm, they should then be held accessory to any and all crimes committed with the firearm.
 
Distracted1 said:
I have long held that that is not enough. If one is careless enough to lose track of their firearm, they should then be held accessory to any and all crimes committed with the firearm.
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Agree.
But that's not politically feasible.
Harder background controls, and maybe gun insurance are, and they would help.
 
Minor irritation of the day:

Before the shooting, the shooter posted to one of his social media accounts, "I am become death, the destroyer of worlds. See you tomorrow, Oxford."

I saw this as a headline in my internet news feed, so I went to see if there was any additional information. The particular article was from Inside Edition. Not exactly my favorite source, but there are worse.

So it was a video article, and the announcer described the quote, and then said it was from a violent video game. They showed the screen capture with the caption on it. There were mushroom clouds. He went on to say that the kid played a lot of violent video games. Sigh. yeah....the video games did it.

Oh well. I'm not a fan of the violent video games. One of them they showed was Grand Theft Auto, I think IV? Maybe something else....I hate that game, and while it doesn't cause many people to go over the edge, it sure as heck can't do any good, but that's not the point. What irked me is that they thought that quote was from a video game.

I'm guessing that most people who frequent this place know the original source of the quote, but for those who do not:

It's originally from the Bhagavad-Ghita, but it is famous becuase it was uttered by Robert J. Oppenheimer on observing the first test of the atomic bomb at Los Alamos in 1945.

I just think that the news source should have included that, instead of saying it was from a video game. Or, maybe I'm all wet. Maybe that was a very, very popular game among young people, and the average 15 year old doesn't realize why that quote is appearing on a screen that features nuclear explosions.
 
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My brother has students who thought "Cold War" was from Call of Duty. They didn't know it was a reference to the real world. They play violent video games in Europe and Asia, but they don't have school shootings (or freedom).

I remember listening to a British conservative talk on a panel to a right-wing American audience. Some gun nut from the crowd asks his views on the Second Amendment. He compared widespread gun ownership to the Royal Family: "If we were starting from now, our countries would probably do things differently." He appeased his paymasters by saying the Second Amendment is "very important."

Guns are like religion: perfect for stupid, clingy people.
 
Meadmaker said:
One of [the violent video games] they showed was Grand Theft Auto, I think IV?
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I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but GTA IV has sold 145 million units worldwide, and when you factor in second-hand sales and so on, the total number of people who played it must be over double that. If it really caused school shootings, there'd be a massacre in every school.

Also, the game is 18-rated, so the 15-year-old shooter had no business playing it (if he ever did).
 
plague311 said:
Involuntary manslaughter charges against the parents.
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Side note: I expect a local politician in Texas or Florida to propose a law that makes it illegal to charge a gun owner with a crime that the gun owner did not intentionally commit. Or some similar shield. I hope I’m wrong.
 
Dr. Keith said:
Side note: I expect a local politician in Texas or Florida to propose a law that makes it illegal to charge a gun owner with a crime that the gun owner did not intentionally commit. Or some similar shield. I hope I’m wrong.
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I believe time will prove you right. I would bet a full paycheck on the NRA getting ready to shun and deride this prosecutor as much as possible. Well...maybe. From what I hear the NRA is currently having some fiscal issues.

I was a bit surprised she brought the case. I feel, with skeptic optimism, that certain aspects around the US gun culture is changing. We just had a big civil suit that resulted in a huge gun manufacturing payout, these charges being brought, and I'm hoping it continues. Reckless gun ownership needs to be prosecuted to the absolute fullest extent of the law.
 
plague311 said:
I believe time will prove you right. I would bet a full paycheck on the NRA getting ready to shun and deride this prosecutor as much as possible. Well...maybe. From what I hear the NRA is currently having some fiscal issues.

I was a bit surprised she brought the case. I feel, with skeptic optimism, that certain aspects around the US gun culture is changing. We just had a big civil suit that resulted in a huge gun manufacturing payout, these charges being brought, and I'm hoping it continues. Reckless gun ownership needs to be prosecuted to the absolute fullest extent of the law.
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Her press conference is being televised now. It's clear that the parents were grossly irresponsible, even after school officials told them their son had a serious problem. It's more than just leaving a gun lying around.

I'm sure you're right that the NRA will support them, but I don't really understand that strategy. It would make more sense politically for them to treat these parents were outliers, not at all typical of fine American gun owners.
 
Dr. Keith said:
Side note: I expect a local politician in Texas or Florida to propose a law that makes it illegal to charge a gun owner with a crime that the gun owner did not intentionally commit. Or some similar shield. I hope I’m wrong.
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As long as there's a loophole that allows prosecutors to charge black people with murder for being part of crimes.
 
smartcooky said:
Bullet Proof backpacks? Jesus H Tapdancing Christ!!!! Really?

Only in 'Murica I guess.
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Bob001 said:
You've never seen those before? They've been marketed for years. There are also bulletproof whiteboards and seat cushions.
https://www.safesuitcases.com/bulletproof-backpacks.asp
https://www.thehomesecuritysuperstore.com/collections/bulletproof-backpacks
https://tuffypacks.com/
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Only a few years back many of the "Pro-2A" groups were lobbying very hard for bulletproof school designs. Windows on ground floors either absent, or bullet resistant, all door lock from a central control panic button, all that. Didn't go over too well, my guess is that they don't like being reminded of it anymore.
 
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