Oscillococcinum: OK for vegetarians?

[jasonpatterson]

Um, does he know what the other ingredients in imitation crab meat are? They're usually pollock and other forms of white fish.

Do vegetarians normally eat fish?

I don't know what the heck is in the crab rangoons I've eaten, but it doesn't appear to be edible food at all, it's some sort of white paste that somewhat approximates cheese. I don't think many fake crabs are slaughtered to make rangoons either.

 

[CurtC]

Couldn't every dry martini joke that's every been made be recycled for homeopathic medicines?

"Mix ten billion parts water, and one moment's silence for the duck liver."

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Um, does he know what the other ingredients in imitation crab meat are? They're usually pollock and other forms of white fish.

I think his point is that there's not much of ANY meat in those crab rangoons. (It's basically cream cheese with a fish/crab smell.)

It's not meant as a serious argument. You know--how people joke that it's OK for vegetarians to eat McDonald's burgers since there's almost no meat in them?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

"Mix ten billion parts water, and one moment's silence for the duck liver."

Is that a dry joke about a martini or a joke about a (homeopathically) dry martini?

Don't forget it's "Succussated, not stirred."

ETA: That's for the 007C martini.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

The heart, liver, gizzard, and neck are typically included in the carcass of a chicken/duck/goose. They often come in a little paper bag and are used to make stock, gravy, stuffing, or whatever else you like. I agree with everything else you were saying here, just an FYI.

I'm a vegetarian, but I'd rather see a duck lose its life to become food than to become a homeopathic preparation. A Muscovy Duck is a terrible thing to waste!

 

[Mojo]

It's not meant as a serious argument. You know--how people joke that it's OK for vegetarians to eat McDonald's burgers since there's almost no meat in them?

We spotted a Glaswegian vegetarian friend in the local cafe eating sausage and chips a couple of years back. When challenged he stated that "there's nae meat in 'em!"

 

[Blue Bubble]

We spotted a Glaswegian vegetarian friend in the local cafe eating sausage and chips a couple of years back. When challenged he stated that "there's nae meat in 'em!"

Mojo, you might have mistaken sausage for White Pudding^WP, some versions of which indeed dinnae contain ony meat.

 

[Mojo]

Nope, definitely sausage.

 

[Aepervius]

I'm still skeptical. I don't think there's any agency that regulates homeopathics. No government inspectors, for example.

There is : false advertising. If they advertise a preparatory to be liver duck diluted 200C by a specific method, then it must be so, and not start from the stock solvent without ever diluting, even if the result is the SAME : a sugar pill without anything. And frankly, IIRC there we re a series of running water reactor or something, and it cost them nothing to do it the "right" way, for hundreds of millions euro profit, but the resulting backlash could be terrible if they did not. Why put the profit in jeopardy, when they the benefit they would get from frauding would be next to nil in comparison. Well.... Maybe some MBA did think of it, but I betcha legal stopped them.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

There is : false advertising.

Sorry, but "false advertising" is not a regulating or inspecting agency.

In fact, "false advertising" claims are mostly enforced by the market. I doubt, for one thing, that anyone buying these products is skeptical enough to challenge that the homeopathic was prepared a certain way.

Even if they were, unlike herbals (where you can at least test what you get in the bottle for content of the active compound), you can't tell from the end result of a homeopathic whether or not it was prepared the way it was claimed. So without some agency verifying that what goes on inside the big homeopathic plants, there's no way of challenging their claim that they really used duck's liver and heart to make Oscillococcinum.

Maybe if you found a disgruntled employee willing to be a whistleblower. . . .

 

[BradCatlin]

Investigating Oscillococcinum

I am an attorney who is investigating whether there is a good-faith basis for bringing a legal claim against the manufacturer of Oscillococcinum for selling this product to treat the flu. Other than the website for Oscillococcinum, I have not seen any other form of marketing that Boiron has engaged in in the United States regarding this product. If anyone knows of any such marketing, someone who purchased Oscillococcinum because of this marketing, or knows of scientists who can assess the validity of the studies upon which Boiron relies when marketing this product, please let me know. You can respond to me at bcatlin at price-law . com, if you would rather do so privately.

Brad Catlin

 

[Mojo]

This Cochrane review is about as good as it gets: Homoeopathic Oscillococcinum for preventing and treating influenza and influenza-like syndromes.

It is claimed that Oscillococcinum (or similar homeopathic medicines) can be taken either regularly over the winter months to prevent influenza or as a treatment. Trials do not show that homoeopathic Oscillococcinum can prevent influenza. However, taking homoeopathic Oscillococcinum once you have influenza might shorten the illness, but more research is needed.

So that's a "no" on prevention and a "maybe" on treatment.

That review was originally published nearly ten years ago. The further research which it says is needed does not seem to have been forthcoming, and having been reviewed several times (most recently to 2006) it currently seems to have been withdrawn because the authors were unable to update it.

The full review can still be seen here.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I am an attorney who is investigating whether there is a good-faith basis for bringing a legal claim against the manufacturer of Oscillococcinum for selling this product to treat the flu. Other than the website for Oscillococcinum, I have not seen any other form of marketing that Boiron has engaged in in the United States regarding this product. If anyone knows of any such marketing, someone who purchased Oscillococcinum because of this marketing, or knows of scientists who can assess the validity of the studies upon which Boiron relies when marketing this product, please let me know. You can respond to me at bcatlin at price-law . com, if you would rather do so privately.

Brad Catlin

Three cheers and good luck.

What about taking on Walgreens? I'm annoyed that they have this stuff on the shelf right next to actual OTC drugs, and its packaging is very similar to OTC packaging. You really have to know something about homeopathy to realize you're getting nothing but lactose.

To the issue you're dealing with, isn't the packaging of the product as it sits on a shelf considered "marketing"? If so, Oscillococcinum is definitely marketed as a flu remedy in the U.S. on the shelves of Walgreens.

ETA: Don't all the U.S. distributors of Boiron products comprise "marketing" of these products? Just googling "oscillococcinum" turns up dozens of U.S.-based distributors that make all the typical claims as a flu remedy.

 

[jimtron]

What about taking on Walgreens?

Or Whole Foods? They must sell an awful lot of Homeopathic and other CAM stuff. In the WF stores I've been in, they usually have an entire Homeopathic section, with brochures from the manufacturers (usually Boiron I think?) and books detailing which remedies to take for specific conditions. And I would bet that sales people would be happy to recommend Homeopathic products for whatever ails you.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Or Whole Foods? They must sell an awful lot of Homeopathic and other CAM stuff. In the WF stores I've been in, they usually have an entire Homeopathic section, with brochures from the manufacturers (usually Boiron I think?) and books detailing which remedies to take for specific conditions. And I would bet that sales people would be happy to recommend Homeopathic products for whatever ails you.

Granted any distributer of this junk is guilty of fraud, IMO, but I object less to places like Whole Foods selling it out of a homeopathic section than I do Walgreens selling it on the shelf alongside real drugs.

I mind it less that a believer knowingly buys a homeopathic product than I do someone buying it because it's in a real drug store right next to real drugs thinking "active ingredient" on the label means you actually get a drug that has some measurable effectiveness against the symptoms it claims.

 

[Madalch]

Is the lactose in the lactose tablet actually extracted from milk?

 

[Gwen]

Is the lactose in the lactose tablet actually extracted from milk?

If my memory serves me right it's a byproduct of cheese production.

 

[Chris Haynes]

I am an attorney who is investigating whether there is a good-faith basis for bringing a legal claim against the manufacturer of Oscillococcinum for selling this product to treat the flu. Other than the website for Oscillococcinum, I have not seen any other form of marketing that Boiron has engaged in in the United States regarding this product. ...

I used to hear it pitched on the radio all the time. Except it is not by Boiron, but by the stores trying to sell it. Stores like Super Supplements and on and on. I tried to find something on the radio ads, but only found silly sites like this: http://hubpages.com/hub/Homeopathic-Influenza-Remedy---Oscillococcinum