Merged Osama bin Laden dead,

[Pardalis]

That's like me saying that they could show you a headless bloody body and you'd be convinced. Or absolutely nothing at all.

Nothing will convince you, as nothing convinces you about 9/11, not even photos of plane debris, and DNA tests or engineering reports.

 

[Pardalis]

Links, please, to videos showing bin Laden delighting in slaughtering non-combatants.

Why do you think he targets them then? Why does he target civilians, and use them as missiles?

Or do you consider the African US embassy victims, and the 9/11 victims "combatants", and fair game?

 

[epepke]

Cool doll, I'll send you one for Christmas!

I'm sure that JihadJane would prefer the 2002 Osama bin Laden doll, also by HeroBuilders.

But why stop there? There are so many to choose from:

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=osama+bin+laden+doll

The battery-powered dancing bin Laden is popular in Gaza:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aX_.GU5JO61s

Take your kids to Fudrucker's and win one of these:

http://www1.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/MI90034/

From Singapore:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/72622788@N00/129638655/

Toy cell phones:

http://www.wftv.com/news/3749246/detail.html

And who could forget these little goodies, and the "skepticism" on this board that they had anything to do with the Twin Towers:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1203012/posts

 

[Ziggurat]

Thanks, that's not a bad description of the US monster.
....
Labeling is distorting. A label is a stereotype.

Oh, the irony.

You aren't pro-peace, JJ. You're just on the other side.

 

[Marcus]

You appear to have misunderstood my question.

I was asking why you presume that the reason that the USG decided not to release dead bin Laden pics was to "avoid offending Muslims, part of that would be not appearing to gloat".

What evidence do have that this is the reason?

During the days the decision was being made, there was a lot of discussion by political professionals, including members of the administration, on the pros and cons of releasing the images. The only significant item on the "con" side was the idea that they would offend Muslims.

What makes you think they are misguided? The US is an extremely violent and dangerous force.

I wasn't taking comfort in it. I was challenging the comfort that derives from painting one's enemies as monsters and one's friends as saints, even when your friends are former enemies, or vice versa!

The persons you are referring to, those who think the U.S. is monstrous, are misguided because they think the U.S. is monstrous.

A military force that is not violent and dangerous is an incompetent military force, certainly not one I would want to have defending my country.

On the comfort issue, I was being cute, I fully realize that you wish to paint your opponents as taking comfort in monstrosity, while you yourself are of course exempt.

Evidence of such delight, please.

That would be Osamas speeches, and of course the wild celebrations following 9-11.

If it's off-topic, why did you mention it? It's interesting that you consider 9-11 to be a wacky conspiracy.

The sole reference I made was using the word "another", you are the one who insisted on an example of "another " conspiracy. This is not the place to talk about the 9-11 CT, if you want to talk about a CT involving Bin Ladens death, that is on topic.

If by requesting evidence, you mean you want me to dig up links for all the speeches, news programs, articles, etc., it's not a completely unreasonable request, but I simply don't have enough of an interest in proving anything to you to invest the time in doing so.

 

[JihadJane]

During the days the decision was being made, there was a lot of discussion by political professionals, including members of the administration, on the pros and cons of releasing the images. The only significant item on the "con" side was the idea that they would offend Muslims.The persons you are referring to, those who think the U.S. is monstrous, are misguided because they think the U.S. is monstrous.

Are you confident that this is the real or main reason. If so, why?

military force that is not violent and dangerous is an incompetent military force, certainly not one I would want to have defending my country.

A corporatocracy with a military with a budget almost equal to that of the rest of the world combined is a monster.

On the comfort issue, I was being cute, I fully realize that you wish to paint your opponents as taking comfort in monstrosity, while you yourself are of course exempt.

No, I am a monster, too.

That would be Osamas speeches, ...

Which ones. What did he say?

... and of course the wild celebrations following 9-11.

Link to documentation of bin Laden's wild celebrations following 9-11, please.

The sole reference I made was using the word "another", you are the one who insisted on an example of "another " conspiracy. This is not the place to talk about the 9-11 CT, if you want to talk about a CT involving Bin Ladens death, that is on topic.

If by requesting evidence, you mean you want me to dig up links for all the speeches, news programs, articles, etc., it's not a completely unreasonable request, but I simply don't have enough of an interest in proving anything to you to invest the time in doing so.

You irrelevantly introduced the topic of conspiracy, probably as an attempted smear or as a thought stopper, or both:

Cool doll, I'll send you one for Christmas!

Seriously though, you don't really think that a toy company represents the U.S. government do you? Or is this another conspiracy, the government secretly forcing toy makers to follow a hidden agenda?

 

[Pardalis]

Jihad, why did OBL target civilians directly? If he didn't enjoy it, why did he keep doing it over and over again, and en masse? Was he a masochist?

 

[Marcus]

Are you confident that this is the real or main reason. If so, why?

Yes, for the reasons i have already provided, also see the links triforcharity kindly provided. Why, what do you think is the reason?

A corporatocracy with a military with a budget almost equal to that of the rest of the world combined is a monster.

I disagree

No, I am a monster, too.

okay

Which ones. What did he say?



Link to documentation of bin Laden's wild celebrations following 9-11, please.

I was referring to the wild celebrations of Bin Ladens followers, but of course you knew that, the man himself was able to communicate his joy in more subtle ways. If you are claiming that you didn't see these celebrations, that it didn't occur to you to turn on the news after 9-11, I'm going to have to doubt that.

You irrelevantly introduced the topic of conspiracy, probably as an attempted smear or as a thought stopper, or both:

Incorrect. One of the themes of this thread has been the idea that the government and military are lying about Bin Laden being dead. That would be a conspiracy.

You have been asking a lot of questions on this thread, why don't you make your position clear? Do you think Bin Laden is dead? If so, why? Do you think Bin Laden was responsible for the deaths of thousands of inocent people? Does that make him monstrous in your eyes? Why do you think the photos were not released?

 

[JihadJane]

Yes, for the reasons i have already provided, also see the links triforcharity kindly provided.

Links documenting White House statements....

Why, what do you think is the reason?

I don't know the reason. I see no reason to believe anything that is pumped out by the White House political PR machinery.

I disagree

You think it's healthy for a corporatocracy to have such vast military might?

I was referring to the wild celebrations of Bin Ladens followers,...

Do you have any evidence that they were "bin Laden's followers" rather than, perhaps, a small number of ordinary people with knowledge of US violence, happy to see the tables turned for once, against the "Great Satan"?

... but of course you knew that, the man himself was able to communicate his joy in more subtle ways.

Such as? Documentation, please.

If you are claiming that you didn't see these celebrations, that it didn't occur to you to turn on the news after 9-11, I'm going to have to doubt that.

The celebrations (Where did you see them? How large were they? Who was celebrating?) are irrelevant to your original claim, which you appear to have forgotten, namely:

What made Bin Laden a monster was not his enmity but his delight in slaughtering non-combatants.

[My hilites]

What concrete evidence (you have provided none so far) prompted you to make this claim?

Incorrect. One of the themes of this thread has been the idea that the government and military are lying about Bin Laden being dead. That would be a conspiracy.

It was completely unrelated to to anything I had written.

The military and the government have a long and consistent history of lying to the public. Why do you carry on giving them the benefit of the doubt? Where does your skepticism go when those in authority open their mouths?

You have been asking a lot of questions on this thread, why don't you make your position clear? Do you think Bin Laden is dead?

I don't know. His death has been reported many times in the past. There is a chance that one of the reports was accurate.

If so, why?

n/a

Do you think Bin Laden was responsible for the deaths of thousands of inocent people?

I don't know what he is responsible for. Do you know? If so, how do you know?

It has been estimated that al Qaeda is responsible for around five thousand civilian deaths worldwide, a small amount when compared, for example, to those killed by the US military machine during the last half century.

Does that make him monstrous in your eyes?

Not really, he looks very human in my eyes. He is typical of humans who use violence to gain power. One doesn't need to evoke monsters to understand his actions. We are a monstrously violent species. Osama bin Laden's behavior was averagely human, unfortunately.

The difference, of course, to Westerners, is that he is held responsible (on dubious evidence) for killing a significant number of Americans in their "Homeland" rather killing huge numbers anonymous, non-Americans abroad.

Why do you think the photos were not released?

I don't know.

Even if they were released, they could hardly be considered proof of anything.

 

[Toontown]

And so the deep denial begins anew...

 

[triforcharity]

Links documenting White House statements.....

Holy **** man, do you not know how to use google???

FFS.

"It is not in our national security interest to allow those images ... to become icons to rally opinion against the United States," Carney said. "There is no question at all that Usama bin Laden is dead. He will not walk this earth again."

If you had ead the links, you would have seen this was a DIRECT quote from Jay Carney, White House Press secretary.


"It is important for us to make sure that very graphic photos of somebody who was shot in the head are not floating around as an incitement to additional violence or as a propaganda tool. That's not who we are. We don’t trot out this stuff as trophies"

-President Obama on CBS's "60 Minutes"

Goddamn son, learn to read for yourself.

 

[funk de fino]

Sure. Is OBL a Transformer?

What makes you believe that helicopter crashed in the compound?

 

[Toontown]

Holy **** man, do you not know how to use google???

FFS.

"It is not in our national security interest to allow those images ... to become icons to rally opinion against the United States," Carney said. "There is no question at all that Usama bin Laden is dead. He will not walk this earth again."

If you had ead the links, you would have seen this was a DIRECT quote from Jay Carney, White House Press secretary.


"It is important for us to make sure that very graphic photos of somebody who was shot in the head are not floating around as an incitement to additional violence or as a propaganda tool. That's not who we are. We don’t trot out this stuff as trophies"

-President Obama on CBS's "60 Minutes"

Goddamn son, learn to read for yourself.

It is a tactic they use to waste your time. An endless procession of inane questions and statements, meant to bait you into responding with links and such, thereby gobbling up your time and patience.

When it's all said and done, they haven't said a goddamned thing. They all know that crap is king...

 

[JihadJane]

Holy **** man, do you not know how to use google???

FFS.

"It is not in our national security interest to allow those images ... to become icons to rally opinion against the United States," Carney said. "There is no question at all that Usama bin Laden is dead. He will not walk this earth again."

If you had ead the links, you would have seen this was a DIRECT quote from Jay Carney, White House Press secretary.

I read the links.

"It is important for us to make sure that very graphic photos of somebody who was shot in the head are not floating around as an incitement to additional violence or as a propaganda tool. That's not who we are. We don’t trot out this stuff as trophies"

-President Obama on CBS's "60 Minutes"

Goddamn son, learn to read for yourself.

What's your point, triforcharity?

 

[triforcharity]

I read the links.



What's your point, triforcharity?

Aparently not for comprehension.

You asked for this.

"Links documenting White House statements..... "

And I provided three with DIRECT QUOTES from WHITE HOUSE officials.

Are you not following along?

 

[JihadJane]

Aparently not for comprehension.

You asked for this.

"Links documenting White House statements..... "

And I provided three with DIRECT QUOTES from WHITE HOUSE officials.

Are you not following along?

Yes, and I've acknowledged that the links you posted documented White House statements. What's the problem?

 

[Pardalis]

Jihad, why did OBL target civilians directly? If he didn't enjoy it, why did he keep doing it over and over again, and en masse? Was he a masochist?

Does my question embarrass you?

 

[triforcharity]

Yes, and I've acknowledged that the links you posted documented White House statements. What's the problem?

You asked for evidence that the White House based it's decision to not release the OBL photos to the public, on the fact that it might offend Muslims, and incite violence.

I showed you a few diferent links to the WH saying EXACTLY that, and you're still asking what my point is?

Are the words that are in lines, forming sentences, from left to right, confusing you?

 

[JihadJane]

You asked for evidence that the White House based it's decision to not release the OBL photos to the public, on the fact that it might offend Muslims, and incite violence.

I showed you a few diferent links to the WH saying EXACTLY that, and you're still asking what my point is?

I'm still wondering what your point is. What is it?

As shown below, I asked Marcus what his presumption was based on. Your links answered that question. What more is there to say than what I have already said?

The U.S. government possesses the Dead Osama pics, not the whole country. They decided not to release them, presumably to avoid offending Muslims, part of that would be not appearing to gloat.

What makes you presume this?

Are the words that are in lines, forming sentences, from left to right, confusing you?

Do you think that childish attempts to patronize increase your credibility or enhance our communication? (rhetorical question)

 

[zooterkin]

In other news

In a late-night appearance in the East Room of the Imperial Palace, Lord Vader declared that “justice has been done” as he disclosed that agents of the Imperial Army and stormtroopers of the 501st Legion had finally cornered Kenobi, one of the leaders of the Jedi rebellion, who had eluded the Empire for nearly two decades. Imperial officials said Kenobi resisted and was cut down by Lord Vader's own lightsaber. He was later dumped out of an airlock.